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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:54 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 167
Setup: My bike fit has completely changed after dropping a ton of weight over the past year and change. I did the majority of my riding during my weight loss on my Time VRS Fluidity. I needed a more comfort-oriented frame because my "lunch muscle" prevented me from being able to reach a more aggressive / normal riding position.

That has all changed after my weight loss. I am now able to reach a far more normal position on the bike. But in being able to do so I have found out that I'm very oddly proportioned.

I recently had a full bike fit done to see how much my fit has changed and the changes are dramatic. In doing so it turned out that I need the stack of a smaller bike frame (535mm), but the reach of a larger bike frame (399mm). These two measurements are not very compatible.

Using a Time Skylon as an example, an XS gets me near the stack height (526mm), but the reach ends up being 374mm. To get the reach correct I have to go to an XL frame, which gets me a stack of 601mm and a reach of 397mm. As my fitter said, with my shorter legs and longer torso I need the stack of a 52-54 frame and the reach of a 58-60 frame.

This continues on for a lot of frames of interest to me and while I like the idea of custom, I don't like the idea of paying the premium that comes with so many custom frames.

So, that brings me to the point of this whole post...

Is there a website (or multiple websites) that allow you to compare frames and what adjustments one needs to make to them to get the desired stack and reach for a particular rider? i.e., what length and angle of stem one needs to put with a particular frame to reach the desired XY points? This way I can compare frames and see what is out there of interest to me that can work with my wonky measurements.

I believe that I have seen these mentioned on the forum before in the past, but a search did not lead me to what I was looking for.

Any help with regard to this would be appreciated.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:06 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2516
Location: Vienna Austria
1) You can get a custom frame
2) You can ride more saddle setback. Some people actually prefer sitting further back, I'm one of them.
3) You can ride a longer, -17° stem, slammed to get the low stack you want.

Frame reach and stack are just the base of your fit, you add seapost extension, setback, saddle height and position, headset & spacer stack, stem stack, angle and reach, handlebar width, reach and position, and lever positioning on top. If you play with some of these parameters you can make almost any frame fit, the rest is mostly aesthetics, and some effects on handling.

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:06 am 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:07 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2516
Location: Vienna Austria
What's your saddle height, how far from your saddle you want your bars, and how much drop do you want to ride?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:50 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am
Posts: 136
There is only ONE good solution... The custom frame. All the rest are just patches that ended up with a messed up weight repartition.
If you think the opposite... Then the industry did a good job at convincing us that 5 size are enough to fit us without a problem...

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

Last edited by C36 on Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:54 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:36 am
Posts: 583
I think Velogicfit could be some help to you https://www.velogicfit.com/advanced-product/

bike | instagram | strava

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Posts: 544
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I have similar issues, although not quite as extreme by the sounds of it, need a 590mm top tube and a head tube around 170mm. After searching for ages I've ended up just giving up and buying custom frames. The premium they cost has come down a lot recently as their prices haven't increased anything like as much as the top of the range off the shelf bikes.

Take a look at Wyndymilla, they are surprisingly good value for custom geometry. Maybe not compared to the likes of Canyon, but not as expensive as you might think.

In terms of a comparison tool, Velogicfit linked above looks to be the best available.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Posts: 282
Location: Brisbane

But a few that will get you in the ballpark (both measurements within 10mm, so possible to compensate with stem) - focus izalco max (M 390/537), canyon aeroad (S 391/533), kinesis aithein (53 590/539).

possible some de rosas?

Chapter 2 Tere
Scott Spark 720plus

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 377
What about Trek H1?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:27 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:55 am
Posts: 461
Location: US
I pile on for Velogicfit, it works quite nicely.

They're also very helpful if you have questions and want to contact them.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:55 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:19 am
Posts: 629
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Free: http://www.bikegeo.net/

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
Can you tell us what size and make stem you're currently running, angle of stem, bars, shifters, crank length and saddle setback?

Your cleat position (fore/aft) is something that can be played with. You can go to 165 cranks which will push your saddle back and up (good for shorter legs too). There's a lot of things that can change your need for a certain reach. For example, my Pro bars combined with eTap shifters had a reach of 3cm SHORTER than 3T Aeronovas with Di2. To get an equivalent reach, I'd need to get a 160mm stem from the 130 that I'm running.

Also, even the idea of saddle setback is fungible. Knee over pedal spindle is a classic fitting method but I've ridden everything from 15mm behind to 20mm in front of spindle. My TT bike may have been even further ahead. Steve Hoggs preaches rider balance over following KOPS or one thing or another. I think his rule of thumb is that you should be able to be in the drops riding and comfortably put both hands behind your back for a couple of seconds without falling over.

I wouldn't go off one fitter's recommendations and immediately go out and buy a new bike. You can find the ugly truth that the position he or she set you up on doesn't work for you.

Felt and Cipo also make long reach, short stack bikes.

Current Stable. The Snob Machine | The Crumpton
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 167
Thank you to everyone for your suggestions.

The VelogicFit site will allow me to compare things and see how close I can get in other frames. It's always good to have options.

I know that there are many means with which to adjust fit on the bike. Adjustments being made to the current frame are moving from a 120mm -6 stem to a 130mm -10 stem. The spacers that were previously necessary have been removed and the normal Time Quickset headset has been swapped out for a lower-rise version. All of these minor adjustments are helping to get me very close to where I should ideally be in the short term and without being too rough on the wallet.

In the long term though... yeah, I very much expect for my next frame to be a custom based on my whacky proportions. I'd love for the next frame to be another Time as I love the quality of their frames, but it will most likely be a custom.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:18 am
Posts: 750
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
Do you have your bar xy figures? Either from your fitter or by using velogicfit frame comparison.

http://www.velogicfit.com - 3D Motion Capture and Frame Finder Software

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:36 am
Posts: 294
I use this calculator a lot, which I found through Weight Weenies:

As suggested above, Felt and Cipollini are known to have bikes with shorter stacks for a given reach (or longer reaches for a given stack). Another one to look at is Storck.

I guess I'm not understanding why people are jumping immediately to the need for a custom frame. Your ideal 399mm Reach was determined assuming what length of stem? What did the ideal Stack height of 535mm assume for bearing cover height, spacers and stem angle?

I would recommend against trying to make a short bike "longer" by adjusting the saddle position backwards. Making a bike longer should be done with the stem.

Time VXRS Ulteam (7.16 kg)

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:39 pm 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:26 pm
Posts: 290
Location: LA
http://gearinches.com/blog/misc/bike-ge ... comparator

Cannondale Evo

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