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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:37 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Irc cant make enough tyres thats the problem. I have just recived some rbcc tyres in 25 and 28mm. I placed a order for another 200x 25mm rbcc tyres on friday.

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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:37 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:00 am 
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Posts: 266
bm0p700f wrote:
It is not tubeless technology that is the problem here it is the tubeless tyre choices you are making. The marketing of these tyres though does lead you astray.

I am starting a long process of testing mamy tubeless tyres to see how long the rear last till it wears out or becomes comprised to such an extent it has to be retired.

Tyres to be tested. Mavic yskions, maxxis pardones schwalbe pro one, hutchinson sector 28's, hutchinson all season, panracers race a evo3 tyres, all the irc offerings.
It will take about a year of more.


this is the point!

Would you include the fusion 5 performance 25mm in your test?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:19 am 
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Posts: 450
jlok wrote:
bm0p700f wrote:
It is not tubeless technology that is the problem here it is the tubeless tyre choices you are making. The marketing of these tyres though does lead you astray.

I am starting a long process of testing mamy tubeless tyres to see how long the rear last till it wears out or becomes comprised to such an extent it has to be retired.

Tyres to be tested. Mavic yskions, maxxis pardones schwalbe pro one, hutchinson sector 28's, hutchinson all season, panracers race a evo3 tyres, all the irc offerings.
It will take about a year of more.


this is the point!

Would you include the fusion 5 performance 25mm in your test?


Roni1 never did answer my question regarding which sealant he used. It's not just the tires, but you quickly learn the little nuances of which sealants and tapes work best too. For example I keep seeing people posting about Stan's, Caffe Latex, and other sealants that are not Orange Seal. The only excuse people have for not using Orange Seal is if they can't actually acquire it easily in their region. It really is that much better, and reading his original post about not getting tires to seal until they hit 30psi really makes me wonder which sealant he's been using. Even with how puncture prone Pro Ones seem to be, 4-5mm cuts do seal permanently for me without losing much psi...maybe 10psi if I pumped my tires up to max for PR attempts and 3-5psi at a more sane 70-80psi.

Tape is where I've experimented the most. Finding the best combination that adheres to carbon tire beds and stretches just the right amount has taken a year, but I've finally settled on this green powder coating tape. About the perfect width for today's wide road rims. It's stretchier and thinner than Stan's/Tesa tape, but not too stretchy and thin like Kapton tape. It doesn't leave residue behind after removal either.

As far as tire choices go, I still won't hesitate to go with Pro Ones for training. They do puncture easily, but they seal just fine. I get more mileage out of Pro Ones other fast tubeless tires....around 2500mi. My current Zipp Tangente Speed RT25s (made by Hutchinson) might last half as long. The Zipps do seem less puncture prone, though with only 500mi on my set right now, it's probably just luck. It seems like the Hutchinson made "racy" tires like the Yksion Pro UST, Zipp Tangente Speed RT, and Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactik just don't last very long at all. I've ordered a set of the new IRC Formula Pro Lights and the Yksion Pro UST to use as soon as I wear out the Zipps.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
My 2015 formula lights has 2800 km on them now and the rear looks like it has another 1000km to 2000km in it. Not sure how long the new version will last but it cant be much different. The tyre has held up well though.

I may ride 20,000+km a year but even with the tyres on the test list it is going to take time. Hopefully the test with the light race tyres will be quick. I will have to do some aerochung tests to get an idea of crr as well. So if some tyres dont last i might squeeze another in.

Never had a problem with stans or var tape on any rim. The var tape is thinner than stans so conforms to the deep wells in some rims better than stans tape. I use caffelatex again without issue. It seals well so i am happy.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:58 pm 
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I use Stans tape on all my tubeless setups without any problems. Have been meaning to use the Orange Seal next time I top up or mount a tyre but haven't got around to buying some as yet. I don't seem to have any issues with Stans sealing, but it does tend to dry out quite quickly so hopefully the Orange Seal is an improvement in that department.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:51 pm 
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DOUG wrote:
I use Stans tape on all my tubeless setups without any problems. Have been meaning to use the Orange Seal next time I top up or mount a tyre but haven't got around to buying some as yet. I don't seem to have any issues with Stans sealing, but it does tend to dry out quite quickly so hopefully the Orange Seal is an improvement in that department.


Orange Seal has an endurance formula that's supposed to last twice as long as their regular version before drying out.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:24 am 
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Posts: 226
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA
Yup; however, per Orange Seal, the Endurance formula does seal quite as well/quickly. Just a trade-off.


MikeD wrote:
DOUG wrote:
I use Stans tape on all my tubeless setups without any problems. Have been meaning to use the Orange Seal next time I top up or mount a tyre but haven't got around to buying some as yet. I don't seem to have any issues with Stans sealing, but it does tend to dry out quite quickly so hopefully the Orange Seal is an improvement in that department.


Orange Seal has an endurance formula that's supposed to last twice as long as their regular version before drying out.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:10 am 
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Posts: 450
The normal Orange Seal formula already lasts longer than Stan's before drying out. Outside of summer, Orange Seal lasts me at least 3 months, which is the typical lifespan of Schwalbe Pro Ones mounted in the rear for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:32 am 
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Sounds like it is certainly an improvement. My LBS stocks it so next time I drop in Ill pick some up.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:33 am 
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TobinHatesYou wrote:
The normal Orange Seal formula already lasts longer than Stan's before drying out. Outside of summer, Orange Seal lasts me at least 3 months, which is the typical lifespan of Schwalbe Pro Ones mounted in the rear for me.


I wonder .. could something be added to the Stan's or other sealant as it nears drying out .. say a small amount of water .. vs just more of the same sealant? Isn't it the water content evaporating?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:42 am 
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Posts: 450
WinterRider wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
The normal Orange Seal formula already lasts longer than Stan's before drying out. Outside of summer, Orange Seal lasts me at least 3 months, which is the typical lifespan of Schwalbe Pro Ones mounted in the rear for me.


I wonder .. could something be added to the Stan's or other sealant as it nears drying out .. say a small amount of water .. vs just more of the same sealant? Isn't it the water content evaporating?


The best practice is to use more sealant than you normally would in the summer months so it never starts a snowball effect. If you use the bare minimum of Stan's like 20mL worth in a hot dry summer climate, it might last 3 weeks. If you use 40mL, it's not just going to last 6 weeks. It'll last far longer. After a tough seal, I'll add another 15-20mL of sealant just to be safe.

As for adding water...I doubt that'll work. Just add more sealant.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:11 pm 
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I've Stan's in front wheel #1 only.. with no Stan's left .. not to be replaced. Have Org Seal.. wondered if a touch of water would extend it's use before a removal and refill .. guess I could just add the OSeal. (?)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Posts: 450
Pop the bead off and get rid of any remaining liquid Stan's and any large "stanimals" / boogers, then add Orange Seal. You don't have to clean up the dried Stan's off the inside of the casing...that's extremely hard to do anyway and it probably weighs less than 5 grams.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:45 pm 
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TobinHatesYou wrote:
Pop the bead off and get rid of any remaining liquid Stan's and any large "stanimals" / boogers, then add Orange Seal. You don't have to clean up the dried Stan's off the inside of the casing...that's extremely hard to do anyway and it probably weighs less than 5 grams.


C'mon.. LOL. Was looking for the easy way. :thumbup:

S1's are tight on my Kinlin 200's ... just have to get it done.

... a little H20 woulda been sooo easy.


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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:45 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am
Posts: 266
Just a quick finding:
Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless 25mm is about 9mm wider than Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance Tubeless (not Tubeless Ready).

Schwalbe Pro One 25mm vs Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 25mm https://imgur.com/gallery/fcqza

Weight of the Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 25mm Tubeless weight is 339g! https://imgur.com/gallery/pKgkm


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