Tubeless tire questions

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
alcatraz
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

justaute wrote:My 2 cents. FWIW...I'm ~6'1" and 210 lbs.

I've been tubeless, road/mtb/cx/gravel, for the last three years. For road, I've had a total of 4 flats, and was able to continue riding 3 times. 2 of the 3 times I "heard" the flat, and the last one I didn't know until I got back to the car. The one time I couldn't get home was because of low/no sealant as I had forgotten to refill -- had been 3 or 4 months, I think. I never take spare tubes on the ride, but do carry CO2 and patches.

In short, I'm pretty sure you can get away with not carrying spare tubes, but it's still a good idea. All 4 of my flats were cuts from running over debris/glass/nail. Never had a pinch-flat. Never burped on the road -- a combination of high pressure and proper tubeless rims with some type of anti-burp bump. My rides are usually between 30-50 miles.

Oh...I still don't carry spares. Just have a few tools in the back pockets. :) YMMV.


You brave brave man. :beerchug:

In our group I'm the crazy scientist/mechanic and I wouldn't leave home without at least one conti supersonic inner tube.

You said you leave home with patches and a pump. Can you patch a tubeless tire? Do you do it from the inside or the outside like I've seen some tubulars repaired?

I heard many people advise against running tubeless on road bikes because of the higher pressures. Like sealant doesn't work well at these pressures. What about all that sealant weight? Like after 4 refills doesnt the tire weigh like 100gr more?

/a

by Weenie


justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

Yes, I am a "crazy scientist." :) Just trying to have an open mind and not be constrained by traditional, narrow thinking.

I should clarify. When I wrote "patch", I included vulcanized plugs like DynaPlug or something from Slime. I do not patch the tire from the inside while out riding. As mentioned, the combination of tubeless/sealant has always worked for me, assuming I have sealant in the tire. :) And, yes, depending on the size of the cut, tubeless tire can be patched. For example, I had a sizable cut (~4mm) in my new Panaracer Race A Evo 3 (name is too long) tubeless tire, but the sealant worked well enough to help me ride home, which was ~10 miles. I called Panaracer and was told that patching the cut might not be a good idea in the long run because of high pressure -- Panaracer's customer service was so good that it sent me a replacement tire, free of charge.

As far as high pressure and tubeless go, it's worked for me. Of course, I ride mostly 28mm tires; even the 25mm Schwalbe Pro One I rode tend to inflate up to ~27mm. Thus, I don't use as much pressure in the tires. Usually, I ride in the range of mid/high 80 PSI (~6 bar) in the rear and low/mid 80 PSI (~5.5+ bar) in the front.

In regard to sealant refill, the incremental addition isn't quite cumulative in that sealant does evaporate. So, when you refill, it's not as though you already had 40g in the tire and you are adding another 40g, with 80g total. That said, there will be some remnant of previously filled sealant in the form of dried rubber. Also, keep this in mind, once you already have sealant in the tire, after some time, the inside of the tire gets coated, which means your tire should be well sealed. My subsequent refill I tend to use a little less sealant.


alcatraz wrote:
justaute wrote:My 2 cents. FWIW...I'm ~6'1" and 210 lbs.

I've been tubeless, road/mtb/cx/gravel, for the last three years. For road, I've had a total of 4 flats, and was able to continue riding 3 times. 2 of the 3 times I "heard" the flat, and the last one I didn't know until I got back to the car. The one time I couldn't get home was because of low/no sealant as I had forgotten to refill -- had been 3 or 4 months, I think. I never take spare tubes on the ride, but do carry CO2 and patches.

In short, I'm pretty sure you can get away with not carrying spare tubes, but it's still a good idea. All 4 of my flats were cuts from running over debris/glass/nail. Never had a pinch-flat. Never burped on the road -- a combination of high pressure and proper tubeless rims with some type of anti-burp bump. My rides are usually between 30-50 miles.

Oh...I still don't carry spares. Just have a few tools in the back pockets. :) YMMV.


You brave brave man. :beerchug:

In our group I'm the crazy scientist/mechanic and I wouldn't leave home without at least one conti supersonic inner tube.

You said you leave home with patches and a pump. Can you patch a tubeless tire? Do you do it from the inside or the outside like I've seen some tubulars repaired?

I heard many people advise against running tubeless on road bikes because of the higher pressures. Like sealant doesn't work well at these pressures. What about all that sealant weight? Like after 4 refills doesnt the tire weigh like 100gr more?

/a
Last edited by justaute on Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

alcatraz
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Thank you very much. That answers pretty much everything. Maybe even the meaning of life. :lol:

/a

justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

Meaning of life? I did? :)

Happy to share my personal knowledge. Let me know with any questions.


alcatraz wrote:Thank you very much. That answers pretty much everything. Maybe even the meaning of life. :lol:

/a

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

He's not alone. Any puncture that a DynaPlug can't handle is the type of puncture I wouldn't ride home with a makeshift boot either. A spare tube won't necessarily save you. I don't bring a tube on most of my rides anymore either...just the big days where I go over the mountains into unpopulated areas.

jlok
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

got a sidewall puncture this morning. it's too high for the sealant to work through the hole... managed to get back home as it's close.

leaned the bike and allow the sealant to reach the hole and bingo it sealed! but now I'm thinking of not using Pro One any more for training... too puncture prone or my luck is not good at all...

looking at Hutchinson Fusion 5 Perf. TL.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jlok wrote:looking at Hutchinson Fusion 5 Perf. TL.


Hutchinsons seem to puncture less, but the tread still gets decently cut up. They're also way easier to mount/unmount, seat/unseat than Pro Ones. A 25mm Hutchinson Performance should measure between 26-27mm on wider rims while my Pro Ones measured over 28mm. As far as wear goes, I only know the Galactiks barely last 1000mi for me before the nylon cords start becoming visible. Supposedly tread life is better with the new 11Storm versions, but I have not seen them in stock from the usual sources.

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DOUG
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:54 pm

by DOUG

FWIW Ive done about 400km on a set of Bontrager R3's (25mm) that came on my Aeolus 3's without any issues whatsoever. I run them relatively low at 75psi and find them exceptionally grippy and they roll really nicely. I have a set of Pro Ones to try when these wear out but by the sounds of things the Pro Ones arent the most durable tyre.

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Fixie82
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:45 am

by Fixie82

I'm going to give the Pro One's some love - I've currently got 2 sets of IRCC and two sets of Pro Ones's. Both brands have been raced and had punctures on both - however the IRCC have had more punctures than the Pro Ones.

For the roads I ride on in Australia (QLD and now ACT) both are good but I prefer the Pro One's. They are lighter, feel like they grip better and the ride quality is pretty much the same (25's and one sent of 23's for tight clearance).

The Pro Ones and easy to install, no tools necessary on Kinlin, Venn, Light Bicycle and Alchemist rims. All rims are around 25mm wide and 19mm internal. I use a dual chamber pump to seat them initially and that mostly takes one go.

Have been using Bontrager sealant and now have a big bottle of Cafe Latex.

Being able to get two Pro Ones for a little more than one IRCC is a no brainer to me.

shonanmike
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:27 pm

by shonanmike

ProOne's shredded quickly on clean Japanese roads. Very overrated tires imho. IRC tires cheaper, more durable, and perform at least as well.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

shonanmike wrote:ProOne's shredded quickly on clean Japanese roads. Very overrated tires imho. IRC tires cheaper, more durable, and perform at least as well.


For people outside of Japan, nothing is cheaper than Schwalbe Pro Ones. I live in the US and can get them for US$38 from the UK. Just about every other fast training or race tire costs at least $60. IRC's distribution outside of Japan is almost non-existent.

justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

FWIW...you can get IRC RBCC (I have 28mm) from Outside Outfitters for $63; with coupon codes or sale, then it's below $60, shipped -- similar to Panaracer's offering. Still not as low as that of SPO, but it's something. For the record, I like all three (SPO, IRCR, Panny Evo3).


TobinHatesYou wrote:
shonanmike wrote:ProOne's shredded quickly on clean Japanese roads. Very overrated tires imho. IRC tires cheaper, more durable, and perform at least as well.


For people outside of Japan, nothing is cheaper than Schwalbe Pro Ones. I live in the US and can get them for US$38 from the UK. Just about every other fast training or race tire costs at least $60. IRC's distribution outside of Japan is almost non-existent.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The 28mm RBCC are the only versions showing in stock at BTI for the last couple months. The distribution situation is so bizarre.

justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

I see 23mm & 25mm at Outside Outfitters and Universal -- there may be others. I spoke to IRC USA about availability when I bought mine early this year.

Also, FYI, there is purportedly some incremental improvement to the 2017 version.
http://irc-tire.com/en/bc/products/formula/


TobinHatesYou wrote:The 28mm RBCC are the only versions showing in stock at BTI for the last couple months. The distribution situation is so bizarre.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

Roni1 you are giving up because you are waiting for tyres go get better. They have you have just been using the wrong tyres for you. In the irc range The pro light tyres are the most cut prone followed by the roadlite. The rbcc and fusion x guard tyres are by far the toughest.

Schwalbe pro one are cheap but selecting a performance tyre based on price is not a great. It is a bit like selecting performance car tyres based on price and then being disapointed by the grip.

Like tubed clinchers tubless tyres come in the good the bad and the ugly.

However pro ones work for some just not many. What the pro one is good at is being a low crr quite grippy raceday tyre. That is what it is. Use it for that purpose and youll be happy. Train on it and you may be disapointed. The corsa speed is a smooth circuit tt tyre only.

It is not tubeless technology that is the problem here it is the tubeless tyre choices you are making. The marketing of these tyres though does lead you astray.

I am starting a long process of testing mamy tubeless tyres to see how long the rear last till it wears out or becomes comprised to such an extent it has to be retired.

Tyres to be tested. Mavic yskions, maxxis pardones schwalbe pro one, hutchinson sector 28's, hutchinson all season, panracers race a evo3 tyres, all the irc offerings.
It will take about a year of more.
Last edited by bm0p700f on Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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