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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Posts: 159
Seems like a study with the various permutations of leg amputee Paralympic athletes comparing single vs. crank position double vs. true double would be an interesting read.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Posts: 757
I cannot find it, but there was a study looking at the accuracy of single sided meters, and it found them to not be very good. But I think it was in the context of mountain biking, which presents different power concerns than road cycling.

And as for the comment questioning why suggest SRM - why not. Used ones are fairly affordable and no one has ever questioned the reliability of them, even old wired ones. (Granted, the weakness there is the wires, which can wear out.)


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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:10 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:07 pm 
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Posts: 106
gjhjf wrote:
Quarq is the most stable and the best choice for accuracy and price.


that's not what I heard


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Posts: 296
Location: Seattle, WA
It seems to me that if you're naturally imbalanced then the results from a single-sided PM are normalized anyway, so the slight inaccuracy would only make a difference when comparing with a different reference (ie. someone else's results or a target average power as determined by an online course generator). If you're trying to hit a target average power relative to you're own results with the same single-sided PM, then it doesn't matter if "200w" to you is actually 196w or 204w depending on where the imbalance is and how much it affects.

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BMC Teammachine SLR01 (2018) | Rodriguez Rainier (2015)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Posts: 31
Was in the LBS today and asking about meters. They pointed out that the new shimano DA meter has dropped in price to circa £1300. Might hang on for that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:58 am 
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Posts: 241
bilwit wrote:
It seems to me that if you're naturally imbalanced then the results from a single-sided PM are normalized anyway, so the slight inaccuracy would only make a difference when comparing with a different reference (ie. someone else's results or a target average power as determined by an online course generator). If you're trying to hit a target average power relative to you're own results with the same single-sided PM, then it doesn't matter if "200w" to you is actually 196w or 204w depending on where the imbalance is and how much it affects.


only if one's imbalance is consistent through out the effort.

Some people may have more imbalance when at hard efforts, some may show more imbalance when fatique or at the end of a long hard effort...... that's the inconsistence that we have to take note (whether it's deal breaker is up to the buyer tho), and one could never know until he has dual sided PM. spider-based PM doesn't need to worry as it shows total power anyway.

again, not judging how important it is to you or everyone, just saying there's something we need to understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:38 am 
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Posts: 123
kulivontot wrote:
There's a whole bunch of powermeters and they're very different. Answer some questions and we can better make recommendations.

How many bikes do you have? What's your budget? What kind of riding do you do? Do you have a coach? Are you the kind of data nerd that sits down after every ride and checks your strava analysis afterwards or moreso the type of person that just checks the ride distance / elevation total? What is your current crankset / bottom bracket?


What would you recommend for me then...

1 bike only...Specialized Diverge DSW
Budget preferably less than US$1000
All paved/road riding. I know, I got the wrong type of bike
No coach
I do check my data but not excessively. I check how hard my heart is working, what the strava power is showing, dist, etc etc
current crankset is Praxis Alba M30 48/32 10spd, installed in a Praxis BB30 in the Specialized OSBB frame.

The thing is, I come to realise I can't use the Diverge 'cyclocross potential' so I'm thinking about changing my bike to a Canyon CF SL next year.
The Canyon is shimano press fit with Ultegra or 105 cranksets.

I would prefer transferability....

I did ask in a thread about Power2max vs Quarq....

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Oltre XR3, Diverge DSW


Last edited by Boshk on Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:45 am 
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Posts: 107
Boshk wrote:
kulivontot wrote:
There's a whole bunch of powermeters and they're very different. Answer some questions and we can better make recommendations.

How many bikes do you have? What's your budget? What kind of riding do you do? Do you have a coach? Are you the kind of data nerd that sits down after every ride and checks your strava analysis afterwards or moreso the type of person that just checks the ride distance / elevation total? What is your current crankset / bottom bracket?


What would you recommend for me then...

1 bike only...Specialized Diverge DSW
Budget preferably less than US$1000
All paved/road riding. I know, I got the wrong type of bike
No coach
I do check my data but not excessively. I check how hard my heart is working, what the strava power is showing, dist, etc etc
current crankset is Praxis Alba M30 48/32 10spd, installed in a Praxis BB30 in the Specialized OSBB frame.

The thing is, I come to realise I can't use the Diverge 'cyclocross potential' so I'm thinking about upgrading my bike to a Canyon CF SL next year.
The Canyon is shimano press fit with Ultegra or 105 cranksets.

I would prefer transferability....

I did ask in a thread about Power2max vs Quarq....


Just stick with stages pm. It's affordable and will give you watts to stare at during your trainings.

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S-WORKS VENGE 1ST GEN
PINARELLO F8
PINARELLO F10
2018 BMC SLR01


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:58 am 
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Posts: 241
@Boshk I've come up with a quick suggestion based on the prime consideration of

transferability (to next N+1 bike)

1. Pedal based PM are of course even better. Many would suggest PowerTap P1 in this regard, single-sided or dual-sided.
Limitation: cleats are limited to Look Keo type.

2. Crank/spider/chainring based PM
the ones using BB86 / GXP has the best transferrability between bikes.
a. Stages PM with Shimano cranks (currently single-sided)
b. Quarq DFour/DZero with GXP cranks (sum of both sides)

Limitation: may require purchase and install appropriate BB to match your frame. May require the purchase of correct chainrings.

3. Hub based PM
a. PowerTap hub based PM...

Limitation: customer-built wheelset


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:43 am 
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Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm
Posts: 106
I have read very good things about 4iiii and is only 650 for double sided, i think you have to be N.Amer. based though and at the moment only DA9000 ( http://4iiii.com/wp-content/uploads/201 ... 1-2016.pdf )
for the record i have p2m and am very happy with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am
Posts: 123
jlok wrote:
@Boshk I've come up with a quick suggestion based on the prime consideration of

transferability (to next N+1 bike)

1. Pedal based PM are of course even better. Many would suggest PowerTap P1 in this regard, single-sided or dual-sided.
Limitation: cleats are limited to Look Keo type.

2. Crank/spider/chainring based PM
the ones using BB86 / GXP has the best transferrability between bikes.
a. Stages PM with Shimano cranks (currently single-sided)
b. Quarq DFour/DZero with GXP cranks (sum of both sides)

Limitation: may require purchase and install appropriate BB to match your frame. May require the purchase of correct chainrings.
...


I spoke to p2m in Germany, they suggested the 3d24 model which has 24mm axle. Buy an adapter (cheapest) or converter to change my Specialized's Praxis BB30 to a cater for 24mm.
When and if I do get the Canyon or any bike that is Shimano Pressfit, the p2m can just slide straight in.

Emailed Quarq about it but no reply from them. The Dzero or DFour which can take shimano chainrings has options for either GXP 24/22 or BB30......so trying to get my head around this GXP, BB30, OSBB, Canyon BB....

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Oltre XR3, Diverge DSW


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am
Posts: 123
wwnick wrote:
I have read very good things about 4iiii and is only 650 for double sided, i think you have to be N.Amer. based though and at the moment only DA9000 ( http://4iiii.com/wp-content/uploads/201 ... 1-2016.pdf )
for the record i have p2m and am very happy with it.


I haven't read much reviews complaining about the p2m....general consensus is GOOD

_________________
Oltre XR3, Diverge DSW


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:25 am 
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Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm
Posts: 106
Boshk wrote:

Emailed Quarq about it but no reply from them.


nowadays that product is at a level that is comparable (maybe) , support can be one of the most important influences before purchasing. for what it is worth I heard Rotor is very good with support. and I am a fan of 30mm alu spindles.
I paid way too much for my Power2Max as I am a very frugal buyer but I actually do not regret it and would recommend the product and their support.

p.s. this is an awesome deal on FSA/P2M here https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8; ... =1000,4,29 549,99 €


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am
Posts: 123
wwnick wrote:
Boshk wrote:

Emailed Quarq about it but no reply from them.


nowadays that product is at a level that is comparable (maybe) , support can be one of the most important influences before purchasing. for what it is worth I heard Rotor is very good with support. and I am a fan of 30mm alu spindles.
I paid way too much for my Power2Max as I am a very frugal buyer but I actually do not regret it and would recommend the product and their support.

p.s. this is an awesome deal on FSA/P2M here https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8; ... =1000,4,29 549,99 €


Which power2max are you using and on what type of BB?

_________________
Oltre XR3, Diverge DSW


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm
Posts: 106
K-Force Light 53/39

FSA BSA-BB386 Bottom Bracket ( http://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/type/ ... l-bearings )
Rotor Press Fit 4130 ( http://rotorbike.com/catalog/default/ro ... -4130.html )


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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:16 pm 


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