Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About Impressum
It is currently Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:07 am

All times are UTC+01:00





Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 57 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm
Posts: 106
cdncyclist wrote:
wwnick wrote:
dude dont get a stages until they bring out double sided model
single sided is a joke
or a powertap, you will hate being limited to wheel that it is built on (this is from experience)
and rather than asking "what my first" you should be looking at what is my "last", ie not having to get something better later on.
PM is worth more than anything, frame/wheel upgrade etc. so spend the cash, a P2Max is less than 1/2 price of aero ( :lol: ) frame

p.s. pioneer look good also and are cheap


I recognize that providing opinion is the purpose of this forum, but declarative statements without evidence or even exposition doesn't add all that much to the discussion

"single sided is a joke" ... it's like that and that's the way it is. :D
i think only a stages shill would disagree when you can get double side measurement for a few c notes more.
As I said before a PM is the single most important equipment you can get if you are training, so dont go into it half hearted/half legged :D
also get yourself golden cheetah and the power training book and make sure you get a ROI on your investment.


Top
   
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:15 am 


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am
Posts: 259
If you never used true dual-sided PM you could never tell the true LR balance under different situations, e.g. fresh vs fatiqued, sprint vs climb, etc.

I've seen mine flutuate between 50-50 to 53-47 with Vector 2. New saddle position also changed that balance somewhat.

There's no right or wrong with balance, it's just that. The point being you need to know your balance or the single-sided PM cannot reflect your true power. That could be 6% in my case and vary with different real-world bike settings and ride situations.

Not a problem with dual-sided (PowerTap P1 or Vector) or total power (like SRM or P2M).

Not judging the value of single-sided PM, but there's difference that we should bear in mind.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 pm
Posts: 338
Given that even science doesn't know whether knowing left/right Power is actually useful or not, and that the vast majority (P2M, SRM, Quarq etc) only estimate L/R and are therefore susceptible to the same inaccuracies as left sided only, its nonsense to state something like Stages is a joke based on this alone.

Even my own testing with left sided only PM against a TACX Neo shows total power within 5%, often closer.

Basically go with what you can afford and meets your own requirements.

The only time a dual sided power meter is useful is if you're coming back from injury to one leg.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 1166
I switched from stages to dual 4iiii and power went up 100W and i win every race i enter.
But seriously i can't tell a difference other than I'm pretty sure the right side reads lower than the left and seeing 51/49% irks me.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm
Posts: 166
The killer app for me so far (Stages left side) has been total work tracking and only "enjoying" at most 50% of the kJ in post ride feasting-I've lost 13kg since the beginning of the year while having my power average go up at the same time.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Posts: 1359
The SRM on my cross bike died last week.
I had to put a Stages on to have something in the interim.

The Stages is really terrible- at least for someone who knows and follows their power numbers.

Because it is one sided the actual power number constantly varies by 50 or so watts.

But I could see how the Stages would work for someone who doesn't follow actual power so much and just wants total ride data. It is not crazy far off in that regard.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:10 am
Posts: 39
I'm a little worried that the single vs. double sided has derailed this thread (sorry OP). To be fair, I have tried out dual sided set up and found that my L/R power balance is pretty equal - so I don't see the value in paying more for more information that won't change performance (for me); maybe my opinion would be different if I were 40/60.

I have no specific love for stages (in fact I am building up a cross bike that uses the Easton PM). I still contend for a first time PM buyer, it probably doesn't really matter what you buy (assuming it works - just a note that the 50W power differences the post above noted is NOT my experience and suggests they have a faulty unit). There is STRONG data that training with power leads to significant gains, but no data that I am aware of that the type of PM (or assorted bells and whistles) has any impact.

So get a PM, look at the range of opinions, consider what works best for you and go for it!


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 786
boots2000 wrote:
The SRM on my cross bike died last week.
I had to put a Stages on to have something in the interim.

The Stages is really terrible- at least for someone who knows and follows their power numbers.

Because it is one sided the actual power number constantly varies by 50 or so watts.

But I could see how the Stages would work for someone who doesn't follow actual power so much and just wants total ride data. It is not crazy far off in that regard.


Are you saying that with SRM, you have far less power fluctuations? Even with 3s avg power? Stages do show some real fluctuations while riding,mostly due to slope change, wind change, tempo change,...but on a very regular uphill, I can stay at 270w f.ex, + or - 5w, for a long time without fluctuating more than that, so those variations are real? I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, but I don't understand what huge variations, and way more than SRM, has to do with left-side only. Can you give us some more insight in this?

_________________
Canyon Ultimate CF SLX 2013
Scott Addict Orica Greenedge
Canyon Endurace CF SLX


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:10 am
Posts: 39
jlok wrote:
If you never used true dual-sided PM you could never tell the true LR balance under different situations, e.g. fresh vs fatiqued, sprint vs climb, etc.

I've seen mine flutuate between 50-50 to 53-47 with Vector 2. New saddle position also changed that balance somewhat.

There's no right or wrong with balance, it's just that. The point being you need to know your balance or the single-sided PM cannot reflect your true power. That could be 6% in my case and vary with different real-world bike settings and ride situations.

Not a problem with dual-sided (PowerTap P1 or Vector) or total power (like SRM or P2M).

Not judging the value of single-sided PM, but there's difference that we should bear in mind.


Just to be the devils advocate - is 50/50 the 'best' for everyone? If someone is 47/53 and they adjust to 50/50 through feedback will that make them stronger?

I know I am being repetitive (sorry!) but I would love to see data on this!


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:10 am
Posts: 39
(sorry double post)


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:10 am
Posts: 39
Delorre wrote:
boots2000 wrote:
The SRM on my cross bike died last week.
I had to put a Stages on to have something in the interim.

The Stages is really terrible- at least for someone who knows and follows their power numbers.

Because it is one sided the actual power number constantly varies by 50 or so watts.

But I could see how the Stages would work for someone who doesn't follow actual power so much and just wants total ride data. It is not crazy far off in that regard.


Are you saying that with SRM, you have far less power fluctuations? Even with 3s avg power? Stages do show some real fluctuations while riding,mostly due to slope change, wind change, tempo change,...but on a very regular uphill, I can stay at 270w f.ex, + or - 5w, for a long time without fluctuating more than that, so those variations are real? I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, but I don't understand what huge variations, and way more than SRM, has to do with left-side only. Can you give us some more insight in this?


Same here - accounting for changes in 'actual' power output I can hit a steady state with 3s average pretty easily (or even hit targets with averaging off which I use for really short intervals) with a single sided PM. From the very brief description it sounds like there is an error / fault somewhere.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 786
cdncyclist wrote:
I'm a little worried that the single vs. double sided has derailed this thread (sorry OP).


Dual side has a real cost (in € and in weight), so, why not discus the pro and contra. Espially for beginners (and others, including me, 2 years Stage user), it can be very valuable info, and can help descide if dual side is worth it or not.

_________________
Canyon Ultimate CF SLX 2013
Scott Addict Orica Greenedge
Canyon Endurace CF SLX


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:05 pm
Posts: 31
The thing that's surprised me the most about the topic is the vast difference in price of power meters! I was originally impressed with the tech in the quarq and for value for money it's still the forerunner. Even though is a pseudo L/R meter i think it will be good enough for my needs. Sadly I'm not a pro cyclist!

I really appreciate the input.

Jamie


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 pm
Posts: 338
cdncyclist wrote:
jlok wrote:
If you never used true dual-sided PM you could never tell the true LR balance under different situations, e.g. fresh vs fatiqued, sprint vs climb, etc.

I've seen mine flutuate between 50-50 to 53-47 with Vector 2. New saddle position also changed that balance somewhat.

There's no right or wrong with balance, it's just that. The point being you need to know your balance or the single-sided PM cannot reflect your true power. That could be 6% in my case and vary with different real-world bike settings and ride situations.

Not a problem with dual-sided (PowerTap P1 or Vector) or total power (like SRM or P2M).

Not judging the value of single-sided PM, but there's difference that we should bear in mind.


Just to be the devils advocate - is 50/50 the 'best' for everyone? If someone is 47/53 and they adjust to 50/50 through feedback will that make them stronger?

I know I am being repetitive (sorry!) but I would love to see data on this!


The data doesn't support that, in fact in some cases trying to correct an imbalance in this way leads to a reduction in power output. This is why I said earlier that even science (scientific research) hasn't found L/R balance to be useful except in the case when coming back from a single leg injury.

There's quite a bit of info around this on the DC Rainmaker blog and Slowtwitch forums amongst others if you care to look, but basically it's data that seems like it might be useful, but as yet hasn't proven to be for the majority of people.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am
Posts: 259
cdncyclist wrote:
jlok wrote:
If you never used true dual-sided PM you could never tell the true LR balance under different situations, e.g. fresh vs fatiqued, sprint vs climb, etc.

I've seen mine flutuate between 50-50 to 53-47 with Vector 2. New saddle position also changed that balance somewhat.

There's no right or wrong with balance, it's just that. The point being you need to know your balance or the single-sided PM cannot reflect your true power. That could be 6% in my case and vary with different real-world bike settings and ride situations.

Not a problem with dual-sided (PowerTap P1 or Vector) or total power (like SRM or P2M).

Not judging the value of single-sided PM, but there's difference that we should bear in mind.


Just to be the devils advocate - is 50/50 the 'best' for everyone? If someone is 47/53 and they adjust to 50/50 through feedback will that make them stronger?

I know I am being repetitive (sorry!) but I would love to see data on this!

I don't think there's any real study on the effect of imbalanced outputs.

what I tried to point out was how much differences (and the inconsistence of the difference) of single-sided PM could be between other PM.

if you are going to buy Quarq (spiderarm based) or Rotor 2inpower ( dual-side) types of PM then you don't need to worry about the differences.


Top
   
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:28 am 


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 57 Next

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Power meter lifespan

in Road

stormur

7

937

Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:55 pm

RyanH View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Power Meter For Campagnolo

[ Go to page: 1 2 3 4 ]

in Road

lw11

46

5144

Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:34 pm

Mockenrue View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. power2max power meter

[ Go to page: 1 2 3 ]

in Road

bikeracer99

35

3187

Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:12 am

PinaF8 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. power meter Q again, compatibility

in Road

Boshk

6

562

Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:31 pm

pdlpsher1 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Lil help w/ old SRAM (Red?) power meter?

in Road

Kidtreo

4

361

Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:34 pm

sungod View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], GothicCastle, lovemyway, vejnemojnen and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited