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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Hey guys.

Yet another sizing question.

I'm on the market for a C60, but the sizing gives me a little headache. I'm a big guy, so we are in the 58s,60s,59 or 61 range. And I would like less spacers and seatpost (mostly looks)

Here is a picture of my current bike. It's a size 59. Top tupe is 590mm, seattube 595m, headtube 190mm and with a 100mm stem. My bb to saddle top is 86.4.

Image

In my mind the 58s or the 61 sounds the best? And with those I could get a little bit lower? And for the looks, isn't the traditional the best looking in that size?

Thanks Guys!


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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:15 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:21 pm 
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IMO lugged frames, especially Colnagos, look much better on traditional geometry.
Since you have a huge bb to saddle length definitely a traditional for you.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Look for Calnago's C59 threads to see what a trad Colnago looks like in a 61


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Imo this is a no brainier. 61 Traditional. I think there is actually too much seatpost showing on your bike. I'm out on a ride right now, see pic...
perhaps tomorrow I'll snap a pic of my 61T C59 with the seatpost jacked up to your height.
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:02 am 
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@Nejman... is your headtube measurement of 190mm including the headset cups and cover or not, ie. just the headtube itself in between the cups? If it's just in between the cups, then you'd be looking at a comparable headtube length of about 220mm in a frame that uses integrated or semi integrated cups. So my initial reaction of a no-brainer being a 61 Traditional may have had some error in it induced by some wine, women and not really looking at your pic quite close enough. Now that I'm looking at it on my computer, I'm wondering about the top tube measurement as well... is that an actual 59cm top tube or effective. If it's actual, then the effective top tube length would be around 60mm I would guess, so in hindsight a 61 Traditional might even be a little small for you. Post up everything you know or have geometry wise on your bike and I'll give you my best guess as to an appropriate size colnago. The fact that your bike is a "size 59" really doesn't mean anything when comparing geometries, as the nominal size can vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer. You really need to compare geometry charts to get the whole picture. I'm especially curious as to what drop you've got going on there. It looks positively massive, like 20cm or so.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:08 am 
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Calnago wrote:
@Nejman... is your headtube measurement of 190mm including the headset cups and cover or not, ie. just the headtube itself in between the cups? If it's just in between the cups, then you'd be looking at a comparable headtube length of about 220mm in a frame that uses integrated or semi integrated cups. So my initial reaction of a no-brainer being a 61 Traditional may have had some error in it induced by some wine, women and not really looking at your pic quite close enough. Now that I'm looking at it on my computer, I'm wondering about the top tube measurement as well... is that an actual 59cm top tube or effective. If it's actual, then the effective top tube length would be around 60mm I would guess, so in hindsight a 61 Traditional might even be a little small for you. Post up everything you know or have geometry wise on your bike and I'll give you my best guess as to an appropriate size colnago. The fact that your bike is a "size 59" really doesn't mean anything when comparing geometries, as the nominal size can vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer. You really need to compare geometry charts to get the whole picture. I'm especially curious as to what drop you've got going on there. It looks positively massive, like 20cm or so.


Haha wine and women are more important ;-)

It would be great with a picture. Would be nice to see how it looks.
I will measure my headtube and toptube later today. Thank you so much for the long and detailed answer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Headtube between headset is 190mm and the toptube meausered cc headtube to cc Seattube is 580mm and 540mm in between. :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Location: Reading, UK
How tall are you ? I'm 194cm, and my saddle height is 84.3, so I'm guessing you are a fair bit taller... Just from looking at your existing bike, you might benefit from something with a longer top tube, headtube and longer stem, so you have more horizontal reach rather than short reach and extreme drop you have at the moment.

I rode around for years on a bike with 14-15cm of drop, and after being measured, ended up being more comfortable and more efficient with only 10cm of drop.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Stack and reach of your Baum is Stack 603 (plus 1.5cm(?) headset plus 2cm(?) spacers) Reach 401.

61 Trad is Stack 600 Reach 399 - so with a 1cm headset cap, 30mm spacers and 100mm stem you'll be millimetres away from the same position - but is that actually the best setup? The Seattube is also 2cm shorter than the Baum.

56 High is Stack 613 Reach 390, so you'd be able to remove some spacers and run a longer stem... but seattube is now 35mm shorter than the Baum so exposed seatpost would be huge.

60 Sloping has Stack 628, Reach 403, so you could run it slammed and it has a 5mm higher ST than the Baum, but the handlebar position would be effectively somewhere more than 5mm longer.

58 Sloping has stack 608 reach 401 (almost exact match to the Baum setup taking headset height into account) with the same seattube height as the 61 Trad.

STA on the Baum is 72.5, STA on all C60s is 72.75, so that's fine.

Question is if the Baum setup is the exact setup you want, or something slightly different?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:51 pm 
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wingguy wrote:
Stack and reach of your Baum is Stack 603 (plus 1.5cm(?) headset plus 2cm(?) spacers) Reach 401.

61 Trad is Stack 600 Reach 399 - so with a 1cm headset cap, 30mm spacers and 100mm stem you'll be millimetres away from the same position - but is that actually the best setup? The Seattube is also 2cm shorter than the Baum.

56 High is Stack 613 Reach 390, so you'd be able to remove some spacers and run a longer stem... but seattube is now 35mm shorter than the Baum so exposed seatpost would be huge.

60 Sloping has Stack 628, Reach 403, so you could run it slammed and it has a 5mm higher ST than the Baum, but the handlebar position would be effectively somewhere more than 5mm longer.

58 Sloping has stack 608 reach 401 (almost exact match to the Baum setup taking headset height into account) with the same seattube height as the 61 Trad.

STA on the Baum is 72.5, STA on all C60s is 72.75, so that's fine.

Question is if the Baum setup is the exact setup you want, or something slightly different?


I'm actually open for everything. Maybe the 60 sloping would be the best fit? And handling? I could run a 110 stem on it or maybe just keep the 100mm to see How things go.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:19 pm 
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Nejmann wrote:
Headtube between headset is 190mm and the toptube meausered cc headtube to cc Seattube is 580mm and 540mm in between. :-)

@Nejmann: Was that a custom Baum built for you? Do you have a really short torso/arms compared to your legs? From the pic that bike looks like it has a very slack seat tube angle (72 degrees or even less) and a steep headtube angle (~74 degrees). I presume your saying above that the effective top tube is 580mm. And you're still using a relatively short stem for your stature. Caveat here is that it is really impossible to give definitive fit advice over the Internet but that setup shown is definitely a bit awkward looking on its own. But maybe it fits you just fine. I don't know. But do tell what that drop is as shown in the pic. Because if that's really a good fit for you, then you may be hard pressed finding a stock frame to fit you and provide the look you're after.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
Nejmann wrote:
Headtube between headset is 190mm and the toptube meausered cc headtube to cc Seattube is 580mm and 540mm in between. :-)

@Nejmann: Was that a custom Baum built for you? Do you have a really short torso/arms compared to your legs? From the pic that bike looks like it has a very slack seat tube angle (72 degrees or even less) and a steep headtube angle (~74 degrees). I presume your saying above that the effective top tube is 580mm. And you're still using a relatively short stem for your stature. Caveat here is that it is really impossible to give definitive fit advice over the Internet but that setup shown is definitely a bit awkward looking on its own. But maybe it fits you just fine. I don't know. But do tell what that drop is as shown in the pic. Because if that's really a good fit for you, then you may be hard pressed finding a stock frame to fit you and provide the look you're after.


The drop is around 17-18 cm

I think i'm fairly normal? i'm 195, i think i have long legs, but not really a short torso? Here is a picture of me riding the baum from the side. Maybe you are right, that I should get more upright, and longer? I just did a gran fondo in 9 hours and 30 mins without problems.


Image


No i bought it used. Here is the numbers from the previously owner:

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Pictures of you in the drops? Hard to tell but looks like that'd be quite cramped.

Tbh though I don't think anyone here can really say either way - best would be if you could get onto an adjustable fitting bike and play around with different positions. As a general template I'd say it looks like longer and higher would be better for you... but everyone's different.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:16 pm 
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That was exactly my firs impression looking at this picture.
100mm stem for your height?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Ok, I misread something and thought your eff top tube was 580mm, which would be fairly short, my bad. I see from the chart it's 590mm. Still, given where you need to be in bar height, etc., and your saddle height, I think maybe a 60s might be your best bet. I know it's tough without being able to see them in person and visualize the build. Perhaps @SuperDomestique might weigh in here as I think he has a shop in the UK and actually had a C60 in this size. Maybe he's got a pic of it built up that he could post. I'm kind of thinking that anything smaller is going to leave you with a whole stack of spacers under the stem. And the new "High" geometry only goes to size 56s and I think the top tube would end up too short for you, plus the high geometry means a greater slope to the top tube and you might end up looking like you're scrunched up on a big mountain bike. Aesthetics count, and you've indicated that as a criteria in your decision.
If you wouldn't mind, take a couple more measurements for me.... the distance form the center of the front axle to the where the bottom of the stem starts on the seat tube. Also, I'd like to know the wheelbase on your current bike, easiest way to measure is from the center of each skewer on the drive side. The wheelbase has nothing to do with the actual fit, but a lot to do with how it ultimately handles. And it's good to have all these comparatives in hand when trying to decide. The Colnago BB drop is also a couple mm's lower but no big deal.
And lastly, do you "feel" good on the bike as it is set up? Has anyone you ride with ever mentioned any changes to your fit that might help? Ask them when you ride together. Sometimes it's easier for someone else to spot things while watching you ride then you can take those comments into consideration and decided if they make sense or not from your own perspective. I think often the best guide for fitting is to watch someone actually ride, for real, and see how balanced over the bike they look, etc. As well as looking at how flexible they seem to be etc. etc., and basically just ask questions that gives them something to think about and say either "yeah, that makes sense, I'll try it, or No, that wouldn't work for me because...." There is no right or wrong... and ultimately you have to decide the best fit for you.

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C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:20 pm 


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