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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am
Posts: 388
Doesn't wear increase exponentially?

Like cassette tooth spacing increase is greater in the later half of a chains life compared to the first half.

Or am I just confused... :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Posts: 306
bm0p700f wrote:
I wonder how many turbo or roller miles are on these high mile cassettes. Like colngo I dont get close. chainsand cassettes are cheap enough for me I just leave them and get 3000 miles or so and bin the two. During winter I can wear out a chain in a 1000 miles or on my MTB in one ride.


Your stating you toast a chain in ONE ride on your MTB?


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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:30 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, California
I do exactly what Calnago does, and replace the cassette the same time as the third chain.
Really no sense in risking the family jewels on an out-of-saddle climb. :unbelievable:
Plus, the 13k (8k miles) cassette gets resold for decent bucks on eBay, with plenty of life left.
All Dura Ace for the last 200,000 kilometers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
Delorre wrote:
sawyer wrote:
There are two schools of thought on this:

- replace chain as many times as possible on a cassette until it skips

This is the more expensive approach but also results in fractionally higher efficiency from never running a stretched chain

- run chain and cassette together into the ground and don't care about chain stretch

Using this method the two can work well (i.e. no skipping) together for a very, very long time, and I've had over 30,000km using this method. But you ultimately do trade off a bit of efficiency and new chain "feel". Cheaper, but less mechanically efficient.

As with so many things in cycling, this subject has its fair share of lore, and many people think, wrongly, there is a huge downside to the second approach.

Guess which approach makes more money for the cycling trade?


Your secound choose being the more cheap may be valid if you use an Ultegra chain and cassette, but with the really expensive DA, SR cassettes, it seems to be more economical to change 4 or 5 40€ chains every 3000 miles than change the whole driventrain (250 to 350€) after 6000 or 7000 miles. I don't see a cassette last much longer with a chain stretching more and more...


Not in my experience - though I'll admit to almost always using Record and Super Record cassettes, and not spending all that much time in the Ti sprockets. Prior to that I used DA cassettes (9 speed) and got huge mileage there also.

It does work, but I would add I keep the drivetrain very clean - bike is quieter than most if not all other amateurs at about the same level of interest.

This subject is one where really YMMV due to different maintenance, riding conditions, shifting, etc. But the "keep riding the same chain and cassette" is too readily discounted as the wrong thing to do when for many people it would be cheaper, less hassle and perfectly adequate.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
Asteroid wrote:
I do exactly what Calnago does, and replace the cassette the same time as the third chain.
Really no sense in risking the family jewels on an out-of-saddle climb. :unbelievable:
Plus, the 13k (8k miles) cassette gets resold for decent bucks on eBay, with plenty of life left.
All Dura Ace for the last 200,000 kilometers.


tossed my DA cassette after 12,500km because it wouldn't take a new chain in the middle cogs.. admittedly I probably should have replaced the chain I was using with it a lot earlier and only replaced it after 9,000 km :x

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Posts: 103
I have to say I'm staggered how quickly people get through chains and cassettes. Are people just getting paranoid that something bad is going to happen if you don't change it quickly enough? My examples are as follows. Purchased 11 speed super record including cassette at the start of 2009 and fitted to neutron ultra wheels. Only at the end of last year when I converted that bike into my winter bike did I actually change the cassette. Working out the mileage, I have 3 bikes, but that one would have had around 40,000 miles on that same cassette and wheels. I change the chain every year so that would be around 5,000 miles per chain on that bike. A new chain would perhaps skip the most used sprocket for the first 100 miles or so and then work without problem. Original chain rings as well. And while I'm at it the unproven issue that we're all going to suddenly wear out rims because we're using rim brakes, those wheels are still being used and apart from a couple of broken spokes remain true. The only difference I've picked up from others is that I have OCD when it comes to keeping the drive train clean. It's always degreased and cassette pulled apart weekly, immediately after any wet ride and the chain/sprockets are always dried and never allowed to gain any surface rust. Lube wise I've only ever used a very thin ptfe lube (GT85) though I have changed to finishline dry for my new C60 this year. In those 8+ years nothing bad has happened. I do use the Park chain tool to keep an eye on chain stretch but they've never worn to the limits on that in any calender year so chains have always been changed before then.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:49 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
@C60 - I'm the same on drivetrain maintenance

Strongly suspect from talking to plenty of other riders that many rarely if ever remove the cassette for cleaning. Like you, I clean it frequently. And it makes a huge difference doing so.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:40 pm 
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A big variance in cassette longevity has to do with your riding. If you're on the flats and riding pace lines, you may be riding 70% of your day in a 16 tooth cog, say. That wears it out a lot faster than 15K kilometers. Someone who is all over the cassette with rolling terrain and hills will get better overall life.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:43 am 
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By the time I replace my chain its usually close to a year at which time I've ridden 6,000 miles or there abouts at which time my local bike shop simply advises me to replace both. So I wind up doing both every ten months or so. I save some money by using Ultegra and not Dura Ace parts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:46 am 
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I have worn through more sram red rear derailleurs then i have cassettes. I have killed 3 rds by wearing the outer cage axle down till it wouldn't shift well in each gear. The first actually entered the rear wheel as it broke. I have worn out maybe one stam red rd over the same time, but i have changed gear ratios a bit so haven't worn out all the cassettes i have used prior to changing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2422
Location: Vienna Austria
alcatraz wrote:
Doesn't wear increase exponentially?

Like cassette tooth spacing increase is greater in the later half of a chains life compared to the first half.

Or am I just confused... :D


The tooth spacing can't increase, all the teeth just get thinner by the same amount and change shape. The problem is that a longer chain will only pull on 1 tooth instead of several.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:03 pm
Posts: 50
sawyer wrote:
There are two schools of thought on this:

- replace chain as many times as possible on a cassette until it skips

This is the more expensive approach but also results in fractionally higher efficiency from never running a stretched chain

- run chain and cassette together into the ground and don't care about chain stretch

Using this method the two can work well (i.e. no skipping) together for a very, very long time, and I've had over 30,000km using this method. But you ultimately do trade off a bit of efficiency and new chain "feel". Cheaper, but less mechanically efficient.

As with so many things in cycling, this subject has its fair share of lore, and many people think, wrongly, there is a huge downside to the second approach.

Guess which approach makes more money for the cycling trade?


The second approach worked for me way back when we still rode Dura Ace Chains with a 9 speed cassette, on a training bike where the same wheel will always be in the back. Tried that once with an 11 speed chain and cassette and the chain broke around 5,000 miles needing replacement of the whole drive, chainrings, cassette and chain.

The problem is with SR, over here one can spend $450 on a cassette, second problem is the chain rings also wear faster with a stretched chain.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:44 am 
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Posts: 388
Marin wrote:
alcatraz wrote:
Doesn't wear increase exponentially?

Like cassette tooth spacing increase is greater in the later half of a chains life compared to the first half.

Or am I just confused... :D


The tooth spacing can't increase, all the teeth just get thinner by the same amount and change shape. The problem is that a longer chain will only pull on 1 tooth instead of several.


How about when putting a new chain on a used cassette? It's similar to running a stretched chain right?

So the best approach would be to have like 5 chains and rotate them, no? Theoretically you could rotate them past the 0.5% stretching point and just wear them all out together. Genius, is it? :D

Am I confused here? Thanks for helping me understand...

/a


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:40 am 
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Posts: 2422
Location: Vienna Austria
I'm actually not really sure what happens when you put a new chain on a used cassette, but I think it has more to do with tooth shape than with spacing, and is a different effect than a stretched chain on a new cassette.

There really are people who rotate through several chains until all are worn, and then replace together with the cassette. I'm too lazy for that :)


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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:40 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4423
Location: Natovi Landing
Marin wrote:
There really are people who rotate through several chains until all are worn, and then replace together with the cassette. I'm too lazy for that :)


Me too ... or rather my time is worth more than the cost of doing it

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