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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:36 pm 
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[FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY]

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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:36 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:24 pm 
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ome rodriguez wrote:
Kittel on a different bike in today's mountain stage 12.

Image


You'd think he'd get a new Tarmac? (maybe one of those "superstition" things?)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:28 pm 
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He's be going well on that frame so why change?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:50 pm 
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p3dalfaster wrote:
He's be going well on that frame so why change?


B/c it's the newest, most updated model that is lighter, stiffer, aero-er, makes superheros out of mortals, and provides automatic dates with supermodels...I'm actually surprised that one is even ridable. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:55 pm 
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why wouldn't Porte have locked his wheel with disc brakes? he would have had the same issue going into that corner with that speed and in that line.. would be the exact same result if he had more powerful brakes

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Quote:
why wouldn't Porte have locked his wheel with disc brakes? he would have had the same issue going into that corner with that speed and in that line.. would be the exact same result if he had more powerful brakes


A few minutes before Porte came off, the commentator commented that Porte was the weakest at descending from that group (the curse of the commentator) eh?

Quote:
B/c it's the newest, most updated model that is lighter, stiffer, aero-er, makes superheros out of mortals, and provides automatic dates with supermodels...I'm actually surprised that one is even ridable.


Sure, Specialized want to show off their latest wares with the best riders, it's only natural.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:53 pm 
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bilwit wrote:
why wouldn't Porte have locked his wheel with disc brakes? he would have had the same issue going into that corner with that speed and in that line.. would be the exact same result if he had more powerful brakes


it is much easier to feel and control the point *just* up to locking up the wheel when using disks. it's not about braking power, it is about control.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:06 pm 
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It's the hydraulics that give the feel... not the discs. Anyway, you're right about that incident being about control, and unfortunately Porte just didn't have it... brakes were not the issue. Wish him a speedy recovery.

But it's interesting to see Kittel switched to a rim braked bike for a wet mountain stage.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Kittels bike change is purely about weight in the mountains. Wet or dry the ViAS is an anchor compared to any of the tarmacs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
It's the hydraulics that give the feel... not the discs. Anyway, you're right about that incident being about control, and unfortunately Porte just didn't have it... brakes were not the issue. Wish him a speedy recovery.



Dan Martin said that Porte locked up his rear wheel braking into that corner. Obviously something else might have happened, but i am happy to accept the authority of a witness placed within a couple of feet of the incident. As you said, often the benefits of disc braking is confused with hydraulics - but when discussing disc brakes within pro cycling it is reasonable to assume use of hydraulics.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:55 pm 
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itsacarr wrote:
Kittels bike change is purely about weight in the mountains. Wet or dry the ViAS is an anchor compared to any of the tarmacs.
Of course it was, I know that. Yet someone will blather on about how so much faster you can descend, especially in wet conditions, with discs. I have to surmise that in Kittels mind, who is very accustomed to using discs, the difference a disc equipped aero bike makes while descending is not enough to overcome the advantage of light weight going up.

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Last edited by Calnago on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:09 pm 
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jeffy wrote:
Calnago wrote:
It's the hydraulics that give the feel... not the discs. Anyway, you're right about that incident being about control, and unfortunately Porte just didn't have it... brakes were not the issue. Wish him a speedy recovery.



Dan Martin said that Porte locked up his rear wheel braking into that corner. Obviously something else might have happened, but i am happy to accept the authority of a witness placed within a couple of feet of the incident. As you said, often the benefits of disc braking is confused with hydraulics - but when discussing disc brakes within pro cycling it is reasonable to assume use of hydraulics.

Not sure what point you're trying to make. What I've been saying is the "feel" of hydraulics is very nice for sure. And that is separate from whether the hydraulics act on discs or rims. I suspect that the ultimate light weight road bike braking system in the future will be hydraulically activated rim brakes, which make the current 160mm standard discs look puny. Look to Magura to lead the way. They have the most to gain. Shimano and the likes have the most to gain from promoting discs, and combining their mountain bike and road bike technologies into one. Ugh ugh ugh.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:07 am 
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we shall see ...


[to be continued]


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:50 am 
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Calnago wrote:
jeffy wrote:
Calnago wrote:
It's the hydraulics that give the feel... not the discs. Anyway, you're right about that incident being about control, and unfortunately Porte just didn't have it... brakes were not the issue. Wish him a speedy recovery.



Dan Martin said that Porte locked up his rear wheel braking into that corner. Obviously something else might have happened, but i am happy to accept the authority of a witness placed within a couple of feet of the incident. As you said, often the benefits of disc braking is confused with hydraulics - but when discussing disc brakes within pro cycling it is reasonable to assume use of hydraulics.

Not sure what point you're trying to make. What I've been saying is the "feel" of hydraulics is very nice for sure. And that is separate from whether the hydraulics act on discs or rims. I suspect that the ultimate light weight road bike braking system in the future will be hydraulically activated rim brakes, which make the current 160mm standard discs look puny. Look to Magura to lead the way. They have the most to gain. Shimano and the likes have the most to gain from promoting discs, and combining their mountain bike and road bike technologies into one. Ugh ugh ugh.


Magura? No because everyone wants integrated brake and shift levers so it has to come from Shimano, SRAM, or Campy. By the way, SRAM already makes hydraulic rim brakes with integrated shifters. Not too popular as far as I can tell.


Last edited by MikeD on Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:50 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:42 am 
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Who do you think worked with Campy on their disc brakes. Just sayin. The hydraulics are already in all of the levers. It's just a matter of providing the hydraulic rim calipers that will be compatible with those levers. Instead of the lines going to the disc calipers they could instead go to the rim calipers. It may not be the option that makes the most money for the big guys, especially if they can convince everyone that everything Road as we know it is obsolete. But that's the option I see as the best for high end road bikes and one which would be a lot easier to adopt at the pro level as well. Anyway, I guess I just am never wanting for a different braking system when I'm out on rides and I've tried discs. I just want there to be the choice going forward.
Bottom line is that the pros are still not expressing any desire to change, and that's what this thread is about.

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Last edited by Calnago on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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