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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Location: Vienna Austria
I'm starting to think the cassettes aren't real :(


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Location: Newport Beach, CA
Marin wrote:
I'm starting to think the cassettes aren't real :(


The cassettes exist, there are samples being ridden already. This is a market where performance has a very high level of expectation. 3T is going to measured against Dura-Ace and Red / XG performance the same way we need to measure up against PRO and ZIPP stems and bars. We've demonstrated that we do this; our stems for example are so highly regarded and trusted you'll often find them on pros' bikes whose stem sponsors don't make the appropriate size, angle or some other fit and performance metric.

The 11 speed cassette was conceived during the development of the frame to provide a solution for the "small steps" some riders were seeking. 3T did not suddenly decide to start making drivetrains; we're creating products specifically for 1x road because the other brands have not yet completed their own products for this market. There are ~15+ sizes of cassettes for 2x road bikes but really nothing for 1x performance that addresses both RANGE and SMALL STEP concerns.

We're creating something that does not currently exist in the market so it takes time to reach the benchmark set by a brand that's been building shifting components for ~50 years.

January the Overdrive and Bailout cassettes will begin shipping. Cassettes in use now do not have final finish work, laser engraving, owner's manuals, packaging, installation videos, etc. This takes time in an area we aren't currently selling. I'm just as eager to sell these as you are to see them. Once they are selling, do you intend to own one?

-SD

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Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:08 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:19 am 
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Posts: 57
SuperDave wrote:
Mostly small refinement of layup and finish. Updates on hardware fit and component interface. Rotor rub was not evident on any of the demo fleet but alignment of the caliper is crucial and set up bit trickier with flat mount. The flex in the system is much more in the fork than the wheel. The thin fork blades coupled with the requirement of a high piston position on the flat mount caliper introduces more potential for any movement contacting the rotor. For hub deflection (rotor face surface non-parallel to brake caliper mount) to cause rub there would need to be an alignment issue from the start - or a conventional ~5mm steel/ti quick release.

-SD


Thanks for the reply.

Also, will there be a team and limited version like the Exploro?
Hopefully some color options too ;)

Looking forward trying a production frame and cassette when it becomes available as I enjoyed the prototype frame quite a bit. I might opt for a wheel set not so deep, but the 60’s compliment the look of the frame well.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:30 am 
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Location: Vienna Austria
SuperDave wrote:
Once they are selling, do you intend to own one?


I converted all my 3 road bikes to 1x and I've been refreshing this page daily for weeks now -> https://www.bike-components.de/de/3T/Ba ... te-p59559/

I'll be getting at least 1 cassette initially, but I have XD drivers for all my 5 wheelsets...

I'd be happy to test the cassette if you need feedback :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:57 pm 
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I might be wrong but don't expect 3T to offer a lot of paint job , like on the exploro it will be very limited .
And I can understand it , it a relative small brand etc in frame business for now
Maybe go the custom paint option with '' ready to paint '' frame like open do ?
Otherwise will a custom paint cancel the warranty ?

@Super Dave
About your 9-32 cassettes
What is your point of view on the less good efficiency of smaller cog 9 teeth ? and premature wear ?
Serious question as I already can feel the difference on my mtb with 10 vs 11 , and it's not as good when used with mud .

Is a new line of 3T wheel coming ? Something like the enve AR 4.5 designed for aero with 28 mm 30 mm nominative width tires ?
Or like the token roubx wheels ? Aka 25 mm inside width 29 30 mm outside about ? You need also super wide rims to use wide tires and stay aero. From the datas I read from enve

Cause last time I checked your 28'' carbon disc wheels weren't that wide nor tubeless ready ... Only 25 mm external wide
And only discus c35 ltd was compatible with XD body
so I guess XDR not compatible also for the other wheels...

Regards


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Location: Newport Beach, CA
Succisa75 wrote:
SuperDave wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

Also, will there be a team and limited version like the Exploro?
Hopefully some color options too ;)
Looking forward trying a production frame and cassette when it becomes available as I enjoyed the prototype frame quite a bit. I might opt for a wheel set not so deep, but the 60’s compliment the look of the frame well.


You're welcome.
There is a ~300g delta between the TEAM and LTD EXPLORO. For $/g that's about as much as the commercial market bears. Following that logic we'd need to produce and STRADA LTD that is ~680-725g for the frameset. A monumental challenge with current fabrication limitations in Asia. Perhaps if the knowledge behind Cervelo's California frame projects and THM's manufacturing knowhow could somehow be combined in one effort? ;)

The Discus C35mm front C60mm rear wheelset combo has already proven to be a popular choice for some consumers and ABS team riders. You wouldn't be alone with that selection.

-SD

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/164090


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:41 pm 
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SuperDave, an approximated guess, .. what do you think such a version of Strada would cost?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:12 pm 
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wheelsONfire wrote:
SuperDave, an approximated guess, .. what do you think such a version of Strada would cost?

Do you mean how much would a 695g Aero, Disc, LTD version of the STRADA cost? That's a great question. Let's start with this, what would you pay for such a version of the STRADA? I mean if a slightly aero, STW optimized RCA is $10,000; what is a full aero disc version worth? Given it is impossible to produce yet with current Asian frame manufacturers I don't even know if that's a commercially viable product. OTOH, we sell $1500 Clavicula SE cranksets as fast as we can make them in our German factory so I suppose there's a market in every category for a superlative product.

The fact that the EXPLORO started at $4200 and now can be had as a complete bike with SRAM FORCE 1x for $3990 shows how quickly scale and efficiency can be applied to reduce costs. The STRADA is a bargain at the moment at $3800 for the frameset vs. the S5, S3 Disc, VENGE ViAS, F8/F10 Disc, etc.

-SD

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/164090


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:51 pm 
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SuperDave wrote:
The STRADA is a bargain at the moment at $3800 for the frameset vs. the S5, S3 Disc, VENGE ViAS, F8/F10 Disc, etc.


Agree on the Pina & Specialized comparison, but Cervelo isn't that expensive anymore already for a while. With good local knowledge, someone can get S5 frameset close to $3500, and full retail is around $4000. We'll see, of course, about S5 Disc, if that came out next year...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:01 pm 
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SuperDave wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:
SuperDave, an approximated guess, .. what do you think such a version of Strada would cost?
.....

The fact that the EXPLORO started at $4200 and now can be had as a complete bike with SRAM FORCE 1x for $3990 shows how quickly scale and efficiency can be applied to reduce costs. The STRADA is a bargain at the moment at $3800 for the frameset vs. the S5, S3 Disc, VENGE ViAS, F8/F10 Disc, etc.

-SD



That is some pretty exclusive company you are comparing too with a frame that hasn't been proven yet. Both the S5 and VIAS have Tour victories (yeah, it's the legs....but the bikes apparently didn't slow them down). A S5 frameset is more expensive @ $4,500, but the VIAS is only $200 more @ $4,000. And I can run 2x on both without issue.

I have a feeling you have actual data that leads you to believe why the Strata is a better bike, and a better value....can you share your beliefs and be specific?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Location: Newport Beach, CA
mrlobber wrote:
SuperDave wrote:
The STRADA is a bargain at the moment at $3800 for the frameset vs. the S5, S3 Disc, VENGE ViAS, F8/F10 Disc, etc.


Agree on the Pina & Specialized comparison, but Cervelo isn't that expensive anymore already for a while. With good local knowledge, someone can get S5 frameset close to $3500, and full retail is around $4000. We'll see, of course, about S5 Disc, if that came out next year...


I can only judge by the MSRP; $4500 for frameset, $5100 for built bike; I understand there is a "going/street" price and for that, depending on where you are brings the price down; heck when the timing is right the prices get really cheap if you happen to be in Vietnam, Taiwan and/or China.

But back to your inquiry and my question, what's the price you think consumers are willing to spend on a STRADA LTD?

-SD

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/164090


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:25 am 
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@SuperDave is Vroomen,3T going to release a white paper on the strada. how does 1x built up bike compare against a Madone9,Venge,S5. talk is cheap we need data.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:07 am 
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SuperDave, price for LTD, that is a good question.
I think i depends on what status the bike get.
I imagine it'll to be a small crowd (niche) potential buyers, if the price between standard and ltd version is really high.
There is no premium 1*11 groupsets as far as i see.
It seems Sram Force 1 is about the closest premium choice. I am not sure that would suffice on a bike with super light frame, wheels aso.

But i don't really like to speculate.

_________________
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO D
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Open *UP*
https://opencycle.com/showcase/the-xplo ... eelsonfire


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:11 am 
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spartan wrote:
@SuperDave is Vroomen,3T going to release a white paper on the strada. how does 1x built up bike compare against a Madone9,Venge,S5. talk is cheap we need data.


Go for it, mail Vroomen yourself.
For sure he will reply.

I have never got detailed data from him.
Last time i asked between standard and ltd bikes durability (UP/ Upper, Exploro standard vs Ltd), he answered "all pass same impact tests".

To me it leaves questions.
Let's say i can get what i need in an impact test designing a frame and versions of it.
Let's say this test require 60% out of 100%.
Where 100% is almost impossible to achieve.
60% is what is set as the regulations/ approved standard.
If 4 frames are approved, maybe one is 61%, one 65% and the third 70% and the last hits 80%.
Then the last frame is 30% stronger from the version that is approved at 61%.

It clearly shows that just saying it passes an impact test is not really telling the whole story.

_________________
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO D
Paduano Racing Fidia
Open *UP*
https://opencycle.com/showcase/the-xplo ... eelsonfire


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Posts: 57
Guessing Vroomen would know since he designed the S5 etc., and knows the manufacturing variables to come up with these comparisons.

My Guess if the team Strada frame is going to retail for 3800.00 a limited version would roughly be 1k to 1.5k more max. The carbon layup and the process in which The carbon has to go through to maintain the lightweight and strength capabilities is costly. The fact 3T now owns THM or partners with them was a move for this very reason IMO, to create high quaility carbon frames and parts utilizing the technology and know how from THM.

My hope is If the team Strada bike is a success, we could see even lighter and stiffer Stradas coming in the near future :)


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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:08 pm 


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