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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:59 am 
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Posts: 875
Chung Method is easy.

Find a nice stretch of road that goes down a hill and allows you to slow down as it tapers off without you needing to use the brakes.

Don't ever touch the brakes.

Stay in the same position the entire time (if in drops stay in drops, if on the hoods, stay on the hoods)

Can't have any moving cars by you. None driving past you and no passing other cars. So do the test early in the morning on a weekend when there aren't many cars out or pick a road/location where you can do it without cars distorting the data.

Take a few data runs of each setup.

Download and use Golden Cheetah if you already don't.

Use the Aerolab Chung Analysis option in GC.

Enter total mass of rider + bike.

Enter air density at the time of the test (can find this on www.wunderground.com).

Enter coefficient of rolling resistance.

The Chung method is very easy, not sure where this idea of it not being easy came about. It just takes patience, a power meter, Golden Cheetah, ability to follow the testing protocol and getting quality data.

You are right, anyone wanting a flash Cipo frame doesn't care about substance of a true aero frame. They just want the nice PR and marketing aspect of the bike.


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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:59 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:46 am 
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tranzformer wrote:
Chung Method is easy.

Find a nice stretch of road that goes down a hill and allows you to slow down as it tapers off without you needing to use the brakes.

Don't ever touch the brakes.

Stay in the same position the entire time (if in drops stay in drops, if on the hoods, stay on the hoods)

Can't have any moving cars by you. None driving past you and no passing other cars. So do the test early in the morning on a weekend when there aren't many cars out or pick a road/location where you can do it without cars distorting the data.


Also make sure you don't sneeze, laugh or f@rt.
So... boring...

Could we please leave aside the "aero advantage of the frame" snakeoil and just give credit to a company that dares to do things differently in terms of design, manufacturing and beauty?
Thanks.

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Last edited by kgt on Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:47 am 
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nismosr wrote:
AJS914 wrote:
kidrob wrote:
Mario Cipollini could have at least worked out a bit before showing like that


Damn, he looks like the hulk. You have to respect a cyclist that doesn't get fat after retirement.


her bicep though .. :D


A look at Barbara instagram is worth it! :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:37 pm 
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kgt wrote:
Also make sure you don't sneeze, laugh or f@rt.
So... boring...


If you fart on a Cipiollini, at least you'd be moving forward.


kgt wrote:
Could we please leave aside the "aero advantage of the frame" snakeoil and just give credit to a company that dares to do things differently in terms of design, manufacturing and beauty?
Thanks.


No. If Cipo is still marketing this as an aero frame, then we will discuss his snakeoil and marketing claims regarding aero.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:01 pm 
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micky wrote:
nismosr wrote:
AJS914 wrote:
kidrob wrote:
Mario Cipollini could have at least worked out a bit before showing like that


Damn, he looks like the hulk. You have to respect a cyclist that doesn't get fat after retirement.


her bicep though .. :D


A look at Barbara instagram is worth it! :lol:



post the link .. :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Posts: 130
Like many on this forum I believe FIT is king! (besides weight ofcourse :lol: )

Considering how little a bike frame affects the total overall drag of a cyclist cycling a cycle(Less than shoe covers?). I would put more emphasis on the possible rider position/fit of an 'AERO' bike than the frame itself.

A Madone is widely regarded as the fastest aero frame (as long as you ride without a bottle, which also makes you lighter) But I would be very surprised if a rider would generate less drag on a H2 fit slammed than a RB1K slammed. Even if the Cipollini frame generates more drag, The possible rider position would more than cancel that loss out :noidea:

A Canyon Aeroad CF SLX is also regarded as a very aero and aggressive bike. But even in size L it is higher and shorter than my XL RB1K. It actually feels rather relaxed compared to my Cipollini. The Aero Fit on my RB1K is far superior to on the Aeroad. Yes I could go a size up on the Canyon to get more reach but then I'd also have to go higher.

Here are some pics taken before the 312 with the RB1K in 'endurance mode'. it was still lower than I could achieve on the Canyon slammed, letting me get my back flat and stretched out of the wind.

Both bikes are absolutely superb. I'd have to say thou, as a package the Cipollini is more aero.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:07 pm 
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I like the color but not crazy about the arch in the top tube.

And holy hell, Mario is beefy!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Beautiful RB1000 AZK! How does it ride in comparison to your Aeroad?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:16 pm 
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AZK wrote:
Like many on this forum I believe FIT is king! (besides weight ofcourse :lol: )

Considering how little a bike frame affects the total overall drag of a cyclist cycling a cycle(Less than shoe covers?). I would put more emphasis on the possible rider position/fit of an 'AERO' bike than the frame itself.

A Madone is widely regarded as the fastest aero frame (as long as you ride without a bottle, which also makes you lighter) But I would be very surprised if a rider would generate less drag on a H2 fit slammed than a RB1K slammed. Even if the Cipollini frame generates more drag, The possible rider position would more than cancel that loss out :noidea:

A Canyon Aeroad CF SLX is also regarded as a very aero and aggressive bike. But even in size L it is higher and shorter than my XL RB1K. It actually feels rather relaxed compared to my Cipollini. The Aero Fit on my RB1K is far superior to on the Aeroad. Yes I could go a size up on the Canyon to get more reach but then I'd also have to go higher.

Here are some pics taken before the 312 with the RB1K in 'endurance mode'. it was still lower than I could achieve on the Canyon slammed, letting me get my back flat and stretched out of the wind.

Both bikes are absolutely superb. I'd have to say thou, as a package the Cipollini is more aero.


Easy to spot the noob when it comes to understanding aerodynamics and cycling. Especially when they talk about the frame have such little impact and how shoe covers have a larger impact.

No one is denying fit is important, but all of the modern aero frames can get you low enough with a proper stem if needed so that you have a flat back. You don't need to be touching the road with your handlebars as if it is right of passage. Lowest is not always better. Appropriately low with a proper and correct fit is correct.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:56 pm 
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Another fiery debate about "whats aero and whats not" whenever a redesigned bike is announced. :noidea:

Keeping things on topic, that rear end looks extremely stiff and I like how he moved away from the ISP. I kind of thought that it looked a tad odd on the original Rb1k.. Black chrome...probably will be the best color scheme yet unless we get some odd rendition of his knack towards the CAMO livery..

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:59 am 
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AZK wrote:
A Madone is widely regarded as the fastest aero frame (as long as you ride without a bottle, which also makes you lighter) But I would be very surprised if a rider would generate less drag on a H2 fit slammed than a RB1K slammed. Even if the Cipollini frame generates more drag, The possible rider position would more than cancel that loss out



If you are saying the lower front end on the Cipo ultimately makes it more aero, than you must offer a caveat. That being that the taller front end of the Madone H2, etc. prevents the rider from getting their torso in the optimum position. On the other hand if both bikes allow optimal torso positioning (via more or less bend in the elbows), than the bike with the taller front end will be faster (in combination with the rider).

Occasionally I ride with a first class deuchebag who has an S5. Never seen him on the drops, never seen him bent at the waist, rides sitting up like an old lady going for groceries. So much more about how you use it than what it is. Of course that's no reason to stop going for every aero gain wallet permitting.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:33 am 
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If this is marketed as an aero road bike, then I hope that an aerobar will also be offered. I recall reading from various independent tests that the handlebar (and cabling) contribute quite a lot to aero drag - snake oil again?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:56 am 
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There's no snake oil. Cipollini's are marketed as made in Italy works of art. Like I said, the typical Cipo buyer isn't going to be worried about this debate.

This is all they say on the web site:

Quote:
Besides the masterpieces designed in past years, now Cipollini Bike presents a revolutionary novelty. The extraordinary NK1K, a road frame with the most innovative technologic know-how. Headset carbon cover in 2 sizes integrated in the aerodynamic shape; the frame has been designed for the braking systems of the future, it is available in Disk Brake or Direct Mount, NK1K has a sharp and aggressive line. The only monocoque that today is able to express the maximum possible performance in terms of speed. Ready to write glorious pages. And to stay carved in the heart of all true fans.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:54 am 
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So it's the Lamborghini of bicycles? :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:26 pm 
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AJS914 wrote:
There's no snake oil. Cipollini's are marketed as made in Italy works of art. Like I said, the typical Cipo buyer isn't going to be worried about this debate.

This is all they say on the web site:

Quote:
Besides the masterpieces designed in past years, now Cipollini Bike presents a revolutionary novelty. The extraordinary NK1K, a road frame with the most innovative technologic know-how. Headset carbon cover in 2 sizes integrated in the aerodynamic shape; the frame has been designed for the braking systems of the future, it is available in Disk Brake or Direct Mount, NK1K has a sharp and aggressive line. The only monocoque that today is able to express the maximum possible performance in terms of speed. Ready to write glorious pages. And to stay carved in the heart of all true fans.


I'm not really sure what that's saying to be fair :lol:

Is the part in bold saying it's the fastest frame around today? Does 'aerodynamic shape' mean it's aerodynamic, or does it mean it simply looks like an aero bike but isn't?


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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:26 pm 


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