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 Post subject: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm
Posts: 80
pdlpsher1 wrote:
A single use pin means the pin cannot be taken out of a chain and then reused. A single use quick link means each quick link is only good for the life of a chain, and it shouldn't be reused multiple times on many sets of chains. A single use quick link doesn't mean it cannot be taken apart once it's joined together. So if each set of chain comes with a quick link I don't see the issue of it being single use.

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No, that's wrong. Single use means you should only use it once. If you uncouple your chain, you are supposed to throw it away and use a new one when you join your chain together again.


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: Loveland, CO
MikeD wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:
A single use pin means the pin cannot be taken out of a chain and then reused. A single use quick link means each quick link is only good for the life of a chain, and it shouldn't be reused multiple times on many sets of chains. A single use quick link doesn't mean it cannot be taken apart once it's joined together. So if each set of chain comes with a quick link I don't see the issue of it being single use.

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No, that's wrong. Single use means you should only use it once. If you uncouple your chain, you are supposed to throw it away and use a new one when you join your chain together again.


Can you point me to the document that says this? I can't imagine anyone would bother throwing a quick link away after disconnecting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:07 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
BRM wrote:
Masterlinks already exists for ages.
Maybe the Connex style one, is patented? And therefore others choose a diff style?
Probably more of these concepts for master links are patented.
Maybe others like Shimano have reasons to choose for a style where things can't go wrong and sit more solid?
To limit confusion and warranty claims, not only for chains, bikes but also accidents.

You have a particular use where you choose as best choice the Connex.
But does that count for others too? Apparently not. Many people use kmc quicklinks and are satisfied. The Connex is expensive and the internet shows many that are not technical knowledgeable install the Connex wrong and having problems. Most people just clean their chains so now and then and for them the normal quicklinks are ok. When you need a cheap tool for it who cares.

Here on WW are especially people with exotic use. Special people with special needs. They often generalise and think their needs must be the needs of others too. Which simply is not true . . .

Btw KMC clearly states that their links are not re-usable.
But everyone that uses their brains can figure out that it will not cause problems to re-use a limit amount of times.


you waffle on about opinion then spout you own that is in direct contravention of manufacturer's safety instructions


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Can you point me to the document that says this? I can't imagine anyone would bother throwing a quick link away after disconnecting it.


it's very easy to find...

shimano "Do not reuse a QUICK-LINK that has been removed. If the QUICK-LINK is reused, there is a risk that it will loosen and become detached, which may result in an accident." http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-0159A-003-00-ENG.pdf

sram, "each PowerLock® is good for a one-time application only" https://www.sram.com/sram/road/technolo ... 1beb9ldtav

...i've removed a sram 10-speed one with link pliers to test (i never use them, for 10-speed kmc re-usable goes on, the sram link goes in the bin), a magnifier shows tiny shards of metal flake off in the process, i.e. the sram link is mechanically damaged by removal


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm
Posts: 729
sungod wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Can you point me to the document that says this? I can't imagine anyone would bother throwing a quick link away after disconnecting it.


it's very easy to find...

shimano "Do not reuse a QUICK-LINK that has been removed. If the QUICK-LINK is reused, there is a risk that it will loosen and become detached, which may result in an accident." http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-0159A-003-00-ENG.pdf

sram, "each PowerLock® is good for a one-time application only" https://www.sram.com/sram/road/technolo ... 1beb9ldtav

...i've removed a sram 10-speed one with link pliers to test (i never use them, for 10-speed kmc re-usable goes on, the sram link goes in the bin), a magnifier shows tiny shards of metal flake off in the process, i.e. the sram link is mechanically damaged by removal


Im using quicklinks since MTB times (i was using SRAM 9 speed, connecting/disconnecting many times with hands, and no problems). Usually one link per life of chain.

When i switched to Road bike and Campagnolo Veloce 10 speed chains, i found a problem in cleaning the chain without quicklink. I used the ParkTool Chain Cleaning tool, but some of degreaser went in the hub, so need to replace bearings.

After that decide to use KMC quicklink and on 10 speed i was able to do it with bare hands, and again use the same link during life time of chain.

Then switched to 11 Speed Record, got KMC QuickLink 11 speed, and noticed that not possible to connect/disconnect with hands, so i order Park Tool Pillars for that. Also realized with Pillars there is less damage to the quicklink then when i do barehands. Now on 11 speed im doing this way.. Ussually chain last about 4500 km. In first 1500 km, im using the original pin. After 1500 km, i ussually do the maintence service and cleaning, and then i put 11S KMC QuickLink until the end of the chain (i do the maintence around 1000-1500 km after that, depend how and where i ride).

On my 9 speed MTB, i just replaced cassette/chain (Shimano XT). I used QuickLink right away from start (i ride more dirt with MTB, so need more often cleaning, so that way from start).

I guess every disconnect/connect of quicklink, make it weaker (using pillars definitly do less damage), but based on my experience not weak enough to trow it away after first connect/disconnect. Until now, never had a problem with quicklink to snap or something.But still, i'll use new QuickLink on every chain change and will use Pillars for that (definetly more secure connection and less damage then doing with hands).

Another thing im wondering if we use QuickLink other brand then the chain. Does it affect shifting performance or not?


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
haven't had any shifting issue with the connex/etap (or kmc 10-speed on sram red or shimano)

i spent a long time designing things, some safety critical that could kill me/colleagues if i got it wrong, predicting reliability and analysing failures

i learned a healthy respect for manufacturers' specifications, environment, and how apparently innocuous things can degrade reliability

so i assess risk when i do stuff, i still do stupid stuff, but usually i know i'm being stupid and that i'll be to blame if it goes wrong, but i try to not do stupid stuff that puts others at risk

it's up to the individual, failure modes can be surprising, i'd rather pay a few quid extra for something designed for re-use


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm
Posts: 729
sungod wrote:
haven't had any shifting issue with the connex/etap (or kmc 10-speed on sram red or shimano)

i spent a long time designing things, some safety critical that could kill me/colleagues if i got it wrong, predicting reliability and analysing failures

i learned a healthy respect for manufacturers' specifications, environment, and how apparently innocuous things can degrade reliability

so i assess risk when i do stuff, i still do stupid stuff, but usually i know i'm being stupid and that i'll be to blame if it goes wrong, but i try to not do stupid stuff that puts others at risk

it's up to the individual, failure modes can be surprising, i'd rather pay a few quid extra for something designed for re-use


So what will be product designed for reuse in this case? Is it Connex Quick Link for 11 speed?


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: Loveland, CO
Oh Lord. I've been reusing the links and even across multiple chains on my tandem. So far with no ill effects. Now that I have 11-speed setups on all of my bikes I will use exclusively Dura Ace chains using the quick links. But I do plan on reusing them but just not across multiple chains.


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: Loveland, CO
Curiously, Shimano has another version of the quick link that I have never seen before. On that particular version Shimano states that one may reuse the link as often as one would like, as long as it's replaced when the chain is worn out.

http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/ ... 655402.pdf
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:43 pm
Posts: 817
On google patents you can find more about masterlink/closinglink designs for bicycle chains.


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: Loveland, CO
The main benefit I see with a quick link is that one can easily remove a chain for cleaning, and also use a quick link to repair a broken chain. However if one carries a quick link in the saddle bag one would still need a chain tool to remove the broken link. If the quick link it not reusable, I don't see the benefit of using one as compared to a single-use pin. As I stated earlier I plan to reuse mine as I wish to remove my chain frequently for cleaning. Those who are adamant about not reusing a quick link should just use a pin to save money.


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am
Posts: 476
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Curiously, Shimano has another version of the quick link that I have never seen before. On that particular version Shimano states that one may reuse the link as often as one would like, as long as it's replaced when the chain is worn out.

http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/ ... 655402.pdf
Image


That was for the 7900 series 10 speed chains. Short lived. Quickly went back to pins. Don't know why.


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:17 am
Posts: 727
Location: NZ
I had a couple of those 7900 quick links fail on me. Probably why they stopped selling them.

KMC quick links I reuse for the life of the chain, like others have mentioned. Over approximately 30 chains I've only had one KMC quick link fail (one side snapped in half).


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:22 am
Posts: 78
KMC quick link running on my Dura Ace and KMC chains. Never had a single issue with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:21 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Shimano quicklink
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm
Posts: 310
Shimano SM-CN900-11 vs KMC CL555:


Attachments:
cn900cl555.jpg
cn900cl555.jpg [ 4.77 KiB | Viewed 369 times ]
cn900cl555zoom.jpg
cn900cl555zoom.jpg [ 3.16 KiB | Viewed 369 times ]

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