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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:20 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:29 am 
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kgt wrote:
We don't need to make it look complicated. Colnago's 'arabesque' paintjob would fail in any product design competition. It's simple as that.

I disagree. Certainly will not apply to the Middle East or Asia (where Japan - a huge market for Colnago - has its own special blue themed Arabesque design). We cannot assume what is perceived "nice" in one part of the world is the same in another. There are cultural, artistic and heritage differences. How can we dismiss these?

Also, we are not talking about product design competitions. I have invested in many businesses including a top multiple award-winning bicycle brand but sales are often not closely correlated to what the professional designers and judges think are excellent.

It is difficult to have a "universal" product design that sells well everywhere. From a business point of view, you just have to target specific demographic or geographic markets you want to penetrate and pay more attention to these.

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Current Bikes: Storck F.3 5.5kg
Colnago Concept Art Deco CHDK 7/6.5kg
Collection: Team Ti Raleigh 753 Vintage Campy
Storck Organic Light 11.1kg
Ex: Storck F0.6 Di2 6kg, Storck F0.7IS Di2 4.8kg, Storck Aero2 7.04kg


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:29 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:27 am 
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Posts: 40
Discoverspeed wrote:
kgt wrote:
We don't need to make it look complicated. Colnago's 'arabesque' paintjob would fail in any product design competition. It's simple as that.

I disagree. Certainly will not apply to the Middle East or Asia (where Japan - a huge market for Colnago - has its own special blue themed Arabesque design). We cannot assume what is perceived "nice" in one part of the world is the same in another. There are cultural, artistic and heritage differences. How can we dismiss these?

Also, we are not talking about product design competitions. I have invested in many businesses including a top multiple award-winning bicycle brand but sales are often not closely correlated to what the professional designers and judges think are excellent.

It is difficult to have a "universal" product design that sells well everywhere. From a business point of view, you just have to target specific demographic or geographic markets you want to penetrate and pay more attention to these.


QFT.

Oh, and don't you mean "Art Deco"? Never heard the term Art Decor. Does it refer to something else?


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:59 am 
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rlanger wrote:
Oh, and don't you mean "Art Deco"? Never heard the term Art Decor. Does it refer to something else?

It's what Colnago calls it. http://www.colnago.com/c60/


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:30 am 
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@Discoverspeed
You are messing aesthetics with public acceptance, markets and sales. I am just talking about aesthetics.
We all know that bad taste products, even kitsch stuff can be very succesful in terms of sales. So what?

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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:51 pm 
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kgt wrote:
@Discoverspeed
You are messing aesthetics with public acceptance, markets and sales. I am just talking about aesthetics.
We all know that bad taste products, even kitsch stuff can be very succesful in terms of sales. So what?

@kgt - You said "So what?" Colnago is in the business of selling bicycles - that is the "so what".

I am certainly not "messing" aesthetics and sales. They overlap in the real world - the more they overlap, the more successful the product is in terms of sales and appeal. I am not complicating anything more than what actually happens in reality. Treating aesthetics singularly on the other hand is more of an academic exercise and I am more than familiar too with this concept.

Even if we treat this academically, I still cannot accept that there can only be one set of universal guidelines that define whether a product is in good taste or not. Being Asian and with daily experience with so many diverse cultures in this part of the world, I struggle to find a set of universally accepted rules defining aesthetic taste. It is common to find different ethnicities poking fun at each other - be it cultural differences, art forms or even what constitutes a joke.

So my point is not to so quickly dismiss things as in bad taste - certainly not just because it does not conform to certain rules and design principles that you subscribe to in your part of the world or training. I would rather be much more embracing to the rich diversity that exists in this world. Certain designs look really cool to certain cultures, others find the same designs offensive. That is the essence of diversity and tolerance should be the universally accepted ethos.

Oh yes, please do not next accuse me of messing aesthetics with diversity. I am in fact highlighting that there is diversity in the definition of aesthetics.

_________________
Current Bikes: Storck F.3 5.5kg
Colnago Concept Art Deco CHDK 7/6.5kg
Collection: Team Ti Raleigh 753 Vintage Campy
Storck Organic Light 11.1kg
Ex: Storck F0.6 Di2 6kg, Storck F0.7IS Di2 4.8kg, Storck Aero2 7.04kg


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:11 pm 
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kgt wrote:
We all know that bad taste products, even kitsch stuff can be very succesful in terms of sales. So what?

So, this all started when you said you 'cannot see why' Colnago persists with those Art Decor schemes. Because people think it looks nice and it sells. That's why, so that's what.


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Posts: 185
Back to the frame design. I have a V1-r and love the bike, I do wish the rear brake was mounted on the seat stays but has never really been a problem just a pain when adjusting brake pas for race wheels. That being said was looking forward to V1-2, I actually like the look of cable entering at headtube.....to me just looks cleaner, I also was happy to see brakes moved to the seat stays. What I don't like is the seat tube cut out for rear wheel, just not for me on a rode frame, time trial fine but not road. I like the sear post clamp but REALLY wish they would offer a zero offset post for short torso riders and a lighter rail clamping arraignment.


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Location: Athens, Greece
@Discoverspeed
I know all that, the different mentalities, the cultural issues etc. etc. and I understand everything you say. Still, it is not as complicated as you make it seem. Good design is good design.
@wingguy
So you think that art-decor Colnagos sell and other, simpler, better designs don't? I doubt it.

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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Posts: 3280
kgt wrote:
@wingguy
So you think that art-decor Colnagos sell and other, simpler, better designs don't? I doubt it.

I hope you read your students' papers more carefully than you read forum posts :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:30 am 
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Posts: 40
wingguy wrote:
rlanger wrote:
Oh, and don't you mean "Art Deco"? Never heard the term Art Decor. Does it refer to something else?

It's what Colnago calls it. http://www.colnago.com/c60/


Thanks. Ya learn something new everyday.


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Can't say it's doing a whole lot for me. I like that they've moved the brakes back to where they should have been from the get go, but don't like that they had to do the rear brake routing through the drive side of the top tube. I understand the reason... the angle and shape of the top tube can cause rattles inside the frame. Same reason the Trek Emondas were routed that way, at least until the latest SLR version just released. It's impossible to keep the rear brake housing from rubbing the head tube with that routing, unless you're using the left lever as your rear brake, in which case it's probably better. So, for the Brits, great. Does any other country run the rear brake predominantly from the left lever, Australia and New Zealand maybe?

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C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:46 am 
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Calnago wrote:
So, for the Brits, great. Does any other country run the rear brake predominantly from the left lever, Australia and New Zealand maybe?


Japan.


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:46 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Colnago V2-R 2017
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:44 am 
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Posts: 622
rlanger wrote:
Calnago wrote:
So, for the Brits, great. Does any other country run the rear brake predominantly from the left lever, Australia and New Zealand maybe?


Japan.


Yeah, Japan routes the rear brake from the left but thats because with the language and how the penmanship stands, one needs to write with the right hand even if you are predominantly left handed. Hence the right hand will usually take control of the front brake. All my bikes, previous to the C60 all had the left lever to the rear brake but that was all the much easier with externally routed cables, ie Dogma FPX and Time RXR.

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There is no other way of guarding oneself against flattery than by letting men understand that they will not offend you by speaking the truth; but when everyone can tell you the truth, you lose their respect.


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