23mm on 17mm internal diameter rims?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

23mm on 17mm internal diameter rims?

opinions please

totalcompactroad
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:12 pm

by totalcompactroad

absolutely fine

by Weenie


cmcdonnell
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm

by cmcdonnell

This has been covered before but to reiterate it is fine. I only use 23mm (or 24mm if you count the Spec. Turbo Cottons) tyres on my 17C boras (24.2 external) and all inflate to between 24-25mm which is perfect. 25mm tyres baloon to >27mm which looks awful and would not be very aerodynamic either. Also I never had problems with 23mm tyres on 13C/15C rims in terms of grip/comfort and found them to be a welcome upgrade from 19 mm and 21 mm tyres; for me the move to 25mm tyres has solved a problem I didn't have. Saying that on some of the new super wide rims 25mm tyres do look better but not on an 17C rim I've seen.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

Marin
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

I'm running 23mm Veloflex Corsa on 18mm internal, 25mm external LB rims.

The tires come up to 24mm wide, roll really well and should theoretically be quite good aerodynamically.
Last edited by Marin on Thu May 18, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mellett68
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:54 am

by mellett68

I've run this with 23mm gatorskins on fulcrum 7 lg wheels and they were absolutely fine.

AZR3
Posts: 649
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Az USA

by AZR3

I run 23mm tires on my HED Jet + wheels and those have an internal width of 20.7mm, thousands of miles without an issue.

wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

cool, thank you all for comments

Hexsense
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

ETRTO guide line for 17mm require tire minimum of 25c was written in the day of simple tire construction (no Kevlar) and lousy rim manufacturing (not tight tubeless-compatible bead) rims. It is very conservative guide making sure that tire will always stay in place no matter what.

Newer and better rims and tires however, Isn't risky anymore. Normal sized 23c run great up to 19.5mm internal width. And oversized 23c (like Continental 4000sII) even run fine on 21mm internal width.

wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

Hexsense wrote:ETRTO guide line for 17mm require tire minimum of 25c


thanks, this is exactly why i asked the experts here :D

vejnemojnen
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 pm

by vejnemojnen

heck, hed wheels even permits you to use 23mm tyres on 21mm internal width rims..
Image
so, 17-23 is fine. and imho, even better than 25 on the same rims..

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stockae92
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:13 pm

by stockae92

I am still on 23mm tire wit 15mm rim.

But I am a bit worry about the fitment issue if 25mm tire on 17mm rim will result in 28mm wide tires.

or simply sticking to 23mm tire on 17mm (may result in 25mm wide tire) would be a safer choice?

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Yes, a 23mm clincher on a 17mm internal width rim will be very similar to a 25mm clincher on a 15mm internal width rim.
Really depends on what you're after. A friend with a C59 got some of the new Ultra Shamals... 17mm internal width. I tested these rims with 23mm and 25mm Continental 4000SII tires. He liked the 23mm tires best on these rims. The 25mm tires ended up being a little too big clearance wise for the C59 frameset anyway, at least on the slightly wider rims. Either tire however, seems to be a very good fit on these rims. That's not to say that the fit will be the same on all rims however, you kind of have to experiment in a lot of cases. I actually took some accurate measurements of the actual width of the tires on these rims as well as on some Campy Neutrons (15mm width). The 25mm Conti's on the 17mm internal width rim would indeed be closer to that of 28mm (actual width) if I recall correctly, so if that is a concern to you, then you may want to stick with the 23's.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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Hexsense
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Continental Seems to be a lot taller for the same width vs my other Vittoria tires.
here's my measured width and height above brake track, note that height measurement is not very accurate because i use ruler, unlike width which i can use calipers.

21mm internal width
Continental 4000sII 23c, width 27.3mm height: between 23 and 24 mm
Vittoria Corsa G+ 25c, width 29.3mm height: 23mm

17mm internal width
Vittoria Corsa G+ 23c width 24.75 height 21mm
Vittoria Corsa G+ 25c width 26.33 height between 22 and 23 mm
Continental 4000sII 25c 26.8 height 25mm+

17mm vs 21mm for height is not very comparable as it is different rims with different sidewall and brake track height.
But it seems like wider rim doesn't make tire much taller at all (unlike width, which increase a lot)

vejnemojnen
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 pm

by vejnemojnen

Calnago wrote:Yes, a 23mm clincher on a 17mm internal width rim will be very similar to a 25mm clincher on a 15mm internal width rim.
.

Nope. It'll be much better.

I've tried 25mm on 15mm rims, and they felt awful. With lower pressures, they behaved funny in corners, and felt sluggish, with higher pressures they were too harsh.

a narrower tyre on wider rim is my choice. I'd definitely go for 23 on 17 if I were the original poster. :thumbup:

https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04/03 ... eel-sizes/

"The problem comes when riders, having read about all the benefits of wider tires, mount a pair of them on the 15C wide alloy stock wheels that came with most of our new bikes or the upgrade alloy wheels sold by most of the leading wheel makers for the last 3-5 years. A 25C tire on a 15C wheel can feel squishy, even more so if you’ve reduced the air pressure to get more comfort. This squishy feel is a symptom of the tire losing its shape and its tendency to fold back on itself. This is the opposite of the improved handling you are looking for by going to a wider tire."

"A 23C tire on a 19C or narrower wheel – best speed. If you’ve chosen this set-up, crits, road races or TTs and triathlons are probably your passion, deeper aero wheels are probably your preferred hoops and and comfort is further down your list of what matters though there are plenty of wheelsets in this width that will be plenty comfortable to start without the need of a wider tire."

I can only agree with it after having experimenting in the area. I'd definitely not hesitate to put narrow tyres onto wider rims.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

^Agree... I was referring really just to size. But yes, I have ridden 25mm Conti Comps mounted on my Neutrons (narrow rim), and the same exact tires on the new Ultra Shamals. Much better fit and feel for sure on the new Shamals. If I were in the market for some alloy clincher rims today, the Ultra Shamals would be my first choice. Aesthetically I'm a bit on the fence over them, and prefer thin stainless steel spokes over the thicker alloy spokes and nipples, and the graphics on the new Shamals are a bit meh, but the quality and design is perfect imo.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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