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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Posts: 716
Now that all three have come up with hydro disc group sets (albeit not yet available), I was wondering about the pros and cons of all three (beyond the normal preferences for companies). Here a first attempt - looking forward to reactions:

SRAM Etap:
+ No wires
+ Lightest weight(?) (2240g according to Bikeradar: 1955g for ETAP rim brakes + 285g)
+ Contact point adjustment
- Shortest battery life (?)
- Hydro still relatively new
- Two batteries

Campagnolo SR Hydro:
+ Biggest distance between disc and pad (claimed) (should reduce chance of rubbing)
+ Two position contact point adjustment
+ Claimed lighter than Shimano (2228g according to Bikerumor for SR EPS, 2260g for Record EPS)
- Unproven
- No satellite shifters(?)
- SR EPS is v expensive

Shimano DA Disc:
+ Syncro shift option
+ Di2 has been around a while
+ Hydro disc has been around and is reliable
+ Same hood size (9170)
+ Longer lasting pads than SRAM
+ Direct mount option
- Long lever throw (at least on R785)
- Heaviest(?) (Bikeradar: 2389g complete groupset)

Curious to hear others' thoughts.

Cheers

EDITED with inputs

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Last edited by jever98 on Thu May 11, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Posts: 3312
TBH since all of the new group sets are functionally unavailable (apart from outgoing 9070/R785) still I don't think anyone can give you a fair comparison on braking performance and reliability. So at this point you can only really compare the shifting and ergonomics of the underlying groups.

(As an aside, it would be hilarious if Campag managed to get their newly announced hydro EPS groups into shops before Etap HRD and 9170 finally make it :lol: )


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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:45 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Posts: 716
Agreed on that we don't have a way to assess real life performance for the moment. For now I'm speculating purely by what's on paper and am curious to hear if others have different reflections :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 193
Location: San Sebastian
Dura-ace st-r9170 same size compared to st-r9150...........eTap Hydro and Campy H11 levers.....larger size compared to non-hydraulics


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm
Posts: 1235
Dura Ace Direct Mount rear mech - easier to get rear wheel in (frame hanger availability allowing).
Shimano pads last ages compared with SRAM
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... deo-44489/

Haven't been able to find claimed weights for Campy H11 levers and callipers or SRAM etap HRD.....yet I do recall the SRAM mechanical hydraulics were an impressive weight

Further Reading/Edits
http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/216 ... m-red-etap

Dura Ace ST-R9170 Di2 Hydro
360g pair claimed (RS 785 were 510g real)


Last edited by jeffy on Thu May 11, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Posts: 716
Added some more weights and inputs above. No satellite shifters on Campy, right?

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm
Posts: 1235
ST-R9120 (Mechanical Hydro)
weight claimed
505g (pair shifters)
256g (pair calipers)

ST RS685 650g for pair
BR-RS785 calipers actual for pair 262g


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 706
I've seen 696 grams for H11 Mechanical Shifters plus Calipers. 596 grams for EPS.

New Dura Ace Calipers are 256 grams - using the same weight would put H11 Mechanical Levers under 450 grams - EPS under 350 grams - not bad (I think Red and Dura-Ace are about 500 grams for Mech) - 160mm Campy Discs are 120 grams each

No satellite shifters for Campy but it does have Shift Compensation - You can program it to automatically move a few in the back when you shift the front.

According to Campy H11 Mech shifters/brakes will be available within the next few weeks so they could beat SRAM and Shimano. EPS Hydro is July - Potenza June


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Posts: 48
Maybe a little bit off topic, but about electronic groups: Campagnolo Eps, Shimano Di2, Sram Etap.
Normal standard braking. I want to ask You about any really differents between these three groups. If any of them is electronic.. so what is decision factor in make a choice??

In mechanical version is simple, different method of shifting, in electronic shifting, in every group You push the button, and motor do the rest.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Personally ride Shimano 9070. On Etap, I find the lack of wires attractive (nice clean look) and the fact that you can place satellite shifters very freely.

Never quite understood the attraction of EPS, seemed very expensive. But Campy love is a whole different cup of tea - not to be argued with ;)

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Posts: 710
Negative for Campy is no post mount option, although moving forward the standard will be direct mount frames.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:34 pm 
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I'd suggest you (or people) try them if you can. They are different, but a few points I've had. I've use (regularly) eps and had di2(ultegra) not DA, but no longer own it. Etap was a once try.

Etap It's interesting. Personal preference on the press both to shift the front derailleur is that I dislike it but others love it. Not the rear derailleur shifting, but the front. Side by side it didn't shift as good as the shimano and I didn't deal with battery life. I have heard that you're right, it sounds bad but it's traded off on popping them out unlike the others (unless you use the external Shimano battery which I've seen zero bikes use lately). Personally concerned about all the 2.4ghz stuff interfering but generally didn't have issues that I know of - It was hard to tell because I thought I felt lag on the front deraileur but have heard people argue to the heavens that it's just people like me thinking there is. It could be just mentally haven't to push two buttons or that the separate shifters or that both talk to the derailleurs so there is a wait to see if it's two or one. Maybe it is mentally taxing as I age to do two things while riding. Technically etap is 4 batteries. 2x CR2032. It's a very very good price for the upgrade kits.

Shimano is the benchmark. It's good. It works. The etube connectors are great making it easy to setup almost any bike. Did I mention it works? I can't say I like the new 9100 colour and crank. I don't have love for any of the 4 arm designs but Shimano has shift performance. Etap wins on chargers, shimano is second, and v3 eps is a third with a finicky connector.

EPS has shift assist / comfort styles but only on V3 (Record and Super Record) and a whole suite of configuring the shifter levers (via app). The comfort "style" is essentially Campagnolo's syncroshift. It's just that the name implies that you are a casual rider who doesn't know what they are doing. It's had it since V3 came out over a year ago, so they had "syncro" first technically. If you want you can configure your thumb levers like sprint shifters (two layouts available) but then your other shifter levers are for front derailleur. I tried different configs... immediately switched it back to normal. So ya, lacking sprint shifters but survived for years on mech. I don't know anyone using spring shifters.

A lot of this comes down to personal preference so I'd find a shop and try them. I used to scorn people with electronic shifting a few years ago about electronic shifting thinking it's dumb. I changed after trying and not having to charge very often. I suspect a lot are doing that for disc too.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:35 am 
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Posts: 691
Was it already mentioned? Dura Ace 9170 has also these buttons on the top of the shifters :wink:
As far as I understood they are supposed to be linked to some function of the Garmin for example ? (not sure about that feature)


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Posts: 235
Location: PNW
TonyM wrote:
Was it already mentioned? Dura Ace 9170 has also these buttons on the top of the shifters :wink:
As far as I understood they are supposed to be linked to some function of the Garmin for example ? (not sure about that feature)

DA Di2 shifters (9070 and 9170) have "hidden" buttons on the top of the hoods that can be used to control the bike computer if you also have a D-Fly. It works with Garmin and Wahoo Element (and Element Bolt); I don't know if it works with other bike computers too.

The Ultegra shifters don't have these buttons. I find them very useful and on one of my bikes, which has Ultegra Di2, I put DA shifters on just to get the hidden button functionality. I used to use a Garmin 520 and 820; I am now using an Element Bolt.


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Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:39 am 


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Posts: 74
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
[quote="jeffy"]Dura Ace Direct Mount rear mech - easier to get rear wheel in (frame hanger availability allowing).
Shimano pads last ages compared with SRAM
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... deo-44489/

Haven't been able to find claimed weights for Campy H11 levers and callipers or SRAM etap HRD.....yet I do recall the SRAM mechanical hydraulics were an impressive weight

Ergo Levers + calipers:
Potenza DB: 753g (+64g)
H11: 698g (Chorus +46g, Record +66g, SR +84g)
H11 EPS: 596g (Record +46g, +55g)

Rotors adds: 213g

Dont care about electronic shifting, i dont really see the point. I have Chorus 2015 on my Roadbike not gonna change anything there.

I am in the market for at set of H11's for my adventurebike currently with Chorus 2007 10-speed levers, SRAM X0 type 2 rear-mech, Chorus 2015 front-mech, HY/RD's and Chorus 2015 crankset.
(Potenza levers wont cut it, then i'd might as well get an inferior SRAM or ShimanNO levers).

Don't see the point of the new crankset (i even have a 3rd Chorus 2015 crankset that i have never used - picked up from a lucky ebay bid).

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