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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:54 am 
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You know, you can ride a narrow handle bar on an aero bike as well. You can also be better trained than someone else and still ride an aero frame.

But none of that is contributing to the discussion. It is just like going into any thread of this board and asking why people don't ride a motorcycle instead of a road bike because it is faster, less exhausting and fun, too.


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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:54 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Lieblingsleguan wrote:
You know, you can ride a narrow handle bar on an aero bike as well. You can also be better trained than someone else and still ride an aero frame.

But none of that is contributing to the discussion. It is just like going into any thread of this board and asking why people don't ride a motorcycle instead of a road bike because it is faster, less exhausting and fun, too.



I wanted to post that as well.. But realized that motorcycle is heavier (actual weight :) ) and less aero for cycling, so i decide do dont do it.. Anyway, continue with AERO :) discussion..Just shared my opionion that AERO is not important at all, and marketing gimmick.. But just ignore me and continue in AERO way...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:09 pm 
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3Pio wrote:
tikka wrote:
53x12 wrote:
https://youtu.be/neFnyAE_noQ


Just a cycling guy's channel on YT. Has good stuff. This episode he did an aero test between Evo vs Madone 9.
So.... the aero bike "saves" 10 seconds for every 10 minutes of riding or so.

So on my 3hr weekend outing, I would get home 3 minutes earlier if I had the aero bike!

Might be a deciding factor for some, and that's fine, but for 90% of amateur riders who don't race this supports just riding what you feel best on and brings you most joy, aero or not.



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And the absurd is that in area where im riding a lot of guys buying more AERO, but using wider handlebars in same time. Im using NON Aero bike, but switched to narrower handlebar.. What do u think which is more Aero in the wind?Why i cant see the AERO frame guys have some advantage compared with me?

Also the faster rider here was using Bianchi Oltre XR2 and switched to S-Works SL5. .And he is even faster then he was (not because of frame, but because of his training...) Second faster guy ride Non Aero ORBEA frame (he dont train that much, but somehow naturally is really fast..) Third one riding non Aero Giant...


And the weight maybe it's marketing as well, but at least i can really feel it on the wheels or at least can measure my self (so having some satisfaction about that).

AERO is something u should believe what they claim and for me it's jurt marketing.. Dont make any sense.. The biggest frontal area in the wind is the rider him self. He'll safe more in Aero term, if he improve flexibility to be able to ride lower, and narrower vs buying most "Aero" bike..


1. Anyone on an aero bike can use a narrow handlebar just like you.
2. Anyone on an aero bike can can improve flexibility to ride lower just like one on a regular tube frame.
3. You can measure yourself the aero changes without need of a windtunnel.
4. My guess is you don't own or ride with a power meter, am I correct?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:19 pm 
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53x12 wrote:
3Pio wrote:
tikka wrote:
53x12 wrote:
https://youtu.be/neFnyAE_noQ


Just a cycling guy's channel on YT. Has good stuff. This episode he did an aero test between Evo vs Madone 9.
So.... the aero bike "saves" 10 seconds for every 10 minutes of riding or so.

So on my 3hr weekend outing, I would get home 3 minutes earlier if I had the aero bike!

Might be a deciding factor for some, and that's fine, but for 90% of amateur riders who don't race this supports just riding what you feel best on and brings you most joy, aero or not.



Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk



And the absurd is that in area where im riding a lot of guys buying more AERO, but using wider handlebars in same time. Im using NON Aero bike, but switched to narrower handlebar.. What do u think which is more Aero in the wind?Why i cant see the AERO frame guys have some advantage compared with me?

Also the faster rider here was using Bianchi Oltre XR2 and switched to S-Works SL5. .And he is even faster then he was (not because of frame, but because of his training...) Second faster guy ride Non Aero ORBEA frame (he dont train that much, but somehow naturally is really fast..) Third one riding non Aero Giant...


And the weight maybe it's marketing as well, but at least i can really feel it on the wheels or at least can measure my self (so having some satisfaction about that).

AERO is something u should believe what they claim and for me it's jurt marketing.. Dont make any sense.. The biggest frontal area in the wind is the rider him self. He'll safe more in Aero term, if he improve flexibility to be able to ride lower, and narrower vs buying most "Aero" bike..


1. Anyone on an aero bike can use a narrow handlebar just like you.
2. Anyone on an aero bike can can improve flexibility to ride lower just like one on a regular tube frame.
3. You can measure yourself the aero changes without need of a windtunnel.
4. My guess is you don't own or ride with a power meter, am I correct?



U are correct. Dont own a power meter. And most of my rides are hills (yesterday, recovery ride slow pace 1000 meters climb in 105 km) so maybe another reason to dont believe in AERO.

But i really like to hear real world experiences about this, not just marketing from the magazines who got money to write down whatever manufacturers like Pinarello want.

Also comparing with local guys who buy new frame every six months because is more aero vs guys who are realy strong in my local area.. The AERO guys are just fashion type of riders vs others who really ride strong. First three or four of them are winning races around riding their non Aero bikes, so maybe they are too strong compared to others and that why dont need to improve their speed switching to Aero.

But as said.. I really want to check real world experience from riders who switched to AERO and benefit they got? And what they lost?

p.s. How i can measure Aero Changes without need of windtunnel?

I guess it must be including same factors like wind, body position for whole ride.

And every ride i have, there is slightly different wind position or wind speed.. So how to make the same controllable factors without wind tunnel?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:27 pm 
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The fastest guys around here are on aero frames, use aero wheels, wear aero helmets, wear tight fitting kits, have a good bike fit, run fast tires with low rolling resistance.

If you want to test aero, do the Chung method. Easiest with a power meter. But if you don't have a power meter you can still do the test. Goldcheetah has aerolab built in that will help compute results for you.

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"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:31 pm 
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53x12 wrote:
The fastest guys around here are on aero frames, use aero wheels, wear aero helmets, wear tight fitting kits, have a good bike fit, run fast tires with low rolling resistance.

If you want to test aero, do the Chung method. Easiest with a power meter. But if you don't have a power meter you can still do the test. Goldcheetah has aerolab built in that will help compute results for you.


Thank u.. I'll google Chung method and probably will try. BTW, just to mention that here are hilly region. Most of the ridings there is some climb. And do u think that Aero helps as well in group rides or just riding in the front?

And to be honest im thinking to get power meter, but also have dilemma do i need it.. Not sure that i'll do structured training by the book, because often i just want to ride how i feel and to push with faster guys then me.

Somehow i have feeling that powermeter is really usefull if u are really dedicated to ur training and not skip the plan, which im not sure i want/can to do it...(but this is other topic, maybe we can continue in some other topic closer to this)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:19 pm 
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If you are riding in a group, you can theoretically benefit from an aerobike as well, but your physical capabilities are not linear. Wheter you are putting out 57% or 60% of your FTP in a group really doesn't matter at all. It gets interesting when you are near your limits.

That is also the reason why GC riders choose light frames over aero frames most of the times because they are rarely at the front when not on a steep and/or a long climb, but some guys refuse to understand this very simple fact.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:42 pm 
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3Pio wrote:
But i really like to hear real world experiences about this, not just marketing from the magazines who got money to write down whatever manufacturers like Pinarello want.


The closest to the "real world experience" is what is called Pro Cycling. Just follow the top 5 riders in every Grand Tour during the last years. All these riders (together with their teams, coaches, technical managers, sponsors, friends, etc. etc.) want to win. This is the only thing they want. Guess what? Many of them choose to ride non aero frames, cockpits or helmets. Why? Because in practice aero only matters in TTs. Yes, it's simple as that. Unless Nibali and every single guy at Bahrain-Merida are retards. He just lost the Vuelta for a couple of minutes...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:38 pm 
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kgt wrote:
3Pio wrote:
But i really like to hear real world experiences about this, not just marketing from the magazines who got money to write down whatever manufacturers like Pinarello want.


The closest to the "real world experience" is what is called Pro Cycling. Just follow the top 5 riders in every Grand Tour during the last years. All these riders (together with their teams, coaches, technical managers, sponsors, friends, etc. etc.) want to win. This is the only thing they want. Guess what? Many of them choose to ride non aero frames, cockpits or helmets. Why? Because in practice aero only matters in TTs. Yes, it's simple as that. Unless Nibali and every single guy at Bahrain-Merida are retards. He just lost the Vuelta for a couple of minutes...

For everyone who is not kgt (because he either still won't get it or he just needs this silly argument to be able to continue trolling):
This would only hold true if every team had access to every frame on the market and GC riders are the worst possible example because of what I wrote above.
Also, Nibali is actually riding a mildly aero optimized frame.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:50 pm 
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BS. Nibali has access to Merida Reacto. Quintana to the Aeroad. Aru to the Nitrogen. Bardet to the Factor One etc. etc. All these prefer their sponsor's non aero frames.

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Last edited by kgt on Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:00 pm 
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I reread the whole thread, and i must agree with BRM and KGT about Aero.. I not left just readin the thread, but read different reviews, discussions etc..

For me stay that is just marketing thing for companies to make u buying things every six months (as confenction type of product work.. U know.. It have more features.. It's 5% stiffer, lighter.. But not real quality and advantage..)

If i need to buy a bike in this moment it will be one of this:

1. Ritchey Road Logic

I have respect to Tom Ritchey, i think steel have distinctive way of riding, this frame have nice price, and will last for many years. It can be perfect winter bike, which will improve my fitness wanting to ride it instead beeing anxious how there is a new model which is....

2. Colnago Master X-Light

Almost the same what i wrote for previous frame, except this is more exclusive and more size choices, which i know will fit me perfectly

3. Bianchi Specialissima

It's light, i guess nice as climbing bike, and i like the look of the bike, and can make me want ride ing it for many years without worrying about new model.
Too bad there is no bigger size choice, but maybe i can get 55 cm with shorter reach handlebar. But if i ever start buying this, i'll definetely consult members here :)

4. Fuji SL 1.1

Im really regret why i did not buy this frame last season when there was really cheap on Evanscycles (Like 1200 eur).

Light, not fancy, stiff.. Probably the bike which will make me want to ride it, without worrying too much if i sratch it or something...I like because it's not like Fashion bike, but has real quality inside.. Without paying the price for too much marketing..

And i will not say what KGT saying a trolling.. More like Critical Thinking..

But at the end, if someone think AERO is the way to goo, and he feel faster on Aero bike vs non Aero go with Aero. Go with any concept/bike that u beleive it and that make u want riding actually.. And if that mean replacing a bike every 6 months, do it :). Maybe can be bad for enviroment, but at least it's good for economy sometimes...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:19 pm 
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3Pio wrote:
But at the end, if someone think AERO is the way to goo, and he feel faster on Aero bike vs non Aero go with Aero.

+1
Pro cycling technical managers have repeatedly declared that pro riders are faster (like actually faster) on the bike they feel better. Aero or traditional frames, at the UCI limit or far above it, high or medium profile wheelsets, heavy or superlight shoes, aero helmets or not... Whatever makes them feel good is what makes them faster at the end.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:38 pm 
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I think we can all stipulate that aero benefits are real. It's just that they are unnecessary for 99% of riders. Assuming the above youtube video is correct: 10 seconds saved for 6km. For 99% of riders, who cares if you save one minute on your 60km ride?

The amount of saved watts drafting in a pack in a race or group ride is going to be minuscule. It's not enough to run out and buy a new bike over. Now, if you are already buying a new bike then knock yourself out and go all aero.

The aero frame is also the least cost effective piece of aero equipment. First consider, shoe covers, shaving legs/beard, aero helmet, tight fitting jersey, aero bars/stem, etc, etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:58 pm 
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kgt wrote:
BS. Nibali has access to Merida Reacto. Quintana to the Aeroad. Aru to the Nitrogen. Bardet to the Factor One etc. etc. All these prefer their sponsor's non aero frames.

And once again you missed the point.


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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:58 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Not at all :)

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