Aero test. Trek Madone, Venge, Cervleo S5, Giant Propel & Canyon Aeroad

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wingguy
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by wingguy

Imaking20 wrote:You are reading way too much into this... and maybe twisting a bit to suit your argument. I never said the "handlebar system must work really well". I also never suggested the Vias bars were great (see: goofy).

You said they'd put a lot of effort into the design of their bars and the fact that they were tied fastest in the hoods proved the goofy bar design was successful. Frankly you're wrong either way, but if your comments didn't mean what I've taken them to mean then they didn't mean anything at all. :noidea:

esta wrote:I don't really get how you guys can be arguing about the performances between bikes.
There is a +10% difference between Bikes, thats far off from what was to be expected, probably caused by not having the "same" Riderposition at all. They published this nonsense without even mentioning that massive gap to the Giant.

I've already pointed out the discrepancies that make the results of the test obviously unreliable. Doesn't mean I can't also point out faults in the logic of people trying to interpret the results.

by Weenie


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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

What is it about the Propel that makes it 40W worse than the Madone?!

If their testing was standardised like they say, then that is a huge difference which seems hard to believe.

Far more believable is the fact that the differences in the 1st three are tiny.

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Pokerface07
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by Pokerface07

The same lad that did all this testing has also done some other 'interesting' testing in the past. It's not CyclingWeakly to blame for the test results.
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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Mr.Gib wrote:Unfortunately this is meaningless. The difference between a rider sitting up an inch higher or with his elbows out an inch is probably more than the difference between the best and worst bike. Sure the bikes may have been set up close to each other but there doesn't seem to be proper control for the rider position. It's got be done with a dummy.


Imaking20 wrote:Maybe it was - have you met the rider? ;)
But seriously, how is guesstimating the effect of sitting up one more inch more accurate than this test? Seems like a hypocritical way to invalidate the article.


The point isn't about the effect on performance of inconsistent rider position, the point is, that in this test the consistency of rider position is unknown, and therefore the test is not valid. Perhaps with a massive sample size with multiple riders you could average out inconsistencies and end up with something meaningful. I'm guessing you don't work in research.
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Fixie82
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by Fixie82

cyclespeed wrote:What is it about the Propel that makes it 40W worse than the Madone?!

If their testing was standardised like they say, then that is a huge difference which seems hard to believe.

Far more believable is the fact that the differences in the 1st three are tiny.


This. It's a massive difference, hard to believe that the frame is that much worse aerodynamically. If this was a position issue, it would be great to highlight exactly what that was. For example was the only difference the width in handlebars? Could the tester not get as low? Not as much reach?

kookie
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by kookie

Fixie82 wrote:
cyclespeed wrote:What is it about the Propel that makes it 40W worse than the Madone?!

If their testing was standardised like they say, then that is a huge difference which seems hard to believe.

Far more believable is the fact that the differences in the 1st three are tiny.


This. It's a massive difference, hard to believe that the frame is that much worse aerodynamically. If this was a position issue, it would be great to highlight exactly what that was. For example was the only difference the width in handlebars? Could the tester not get as low? Not as much reach?


There is a picture in the article of a rider in the aero-hood position riding the Propel, the position looked OK. I don't know if the rider held it for the duration or what the aero-hood position looked like for the other bikes?

jlok
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by jlok

Shrike wrote:
If you have any of these bikes you're a lucky man. It's all good.


^this^
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Shrike
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Cycling Weekly have uploaded a video of the testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUh_QeNRVE

Philbar72
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by Philbar72

here's one for you, why not buy a bike you like the look of that's also pretty fast in the tests... win win.

mrfish
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by mrfish

If you wanted to buy a top aero bike, slap on an existing pair of wheels and change nothing else then only ride in a straight line into the wind, then the test results are fairly valid and show that you would be just as (un)competitive on any of the bikes, which we know already from watching the cycling on TV as different people win races.

Solution is simple. Buy either Sagan's specialized or Chris' Pinarello as it wins most races so must be better. Or just get the one that comes in pink.

Noctiluxx
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by Noctiluxx

Be interesting to see how the 2018 Propel does against its competitors in future tests. Bike seems brilliant on paper, minus the nasty graphics.
Bianchi Oltre XR4, De Rosa SK Pininfarina, Trek Madone SLR, Giant TCR Advanced SL, Cervelo R5 Disk, Giant Revolt

GothicCastle
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by GothicCastle

The only thing sillier than taking these test results seriously are the people who think they need an aero bike.

Regardless, small changes on the bike have surprisingly large effects on drag, but you have to balance position with what a specific rider can hold while generating optimal power. Just plopping a rider on an aero bike won’t get the best result. One needs to work out an optimal position for a specific bike.

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kgt
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by kgt

+1
First three riders this year's GTs
Giro 2017: 1st non aero, 2nd non aero, 3rd non aero
Tour 2017: 1st semi-aero, 2nd non aero, 3rd non aero
Vuelta 2017: 1st semi-aero, 2nd non aero, 3rd non aero

who_intheworld
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by who_intheworld

A rider with exactly the same position, regardless of how optimized they are,
will always be faster on an aero road bike than on a non-aero bike.

Regarding the GT contenders' bikes, we're by no means the protected riders shielded from winds most of the time.
We mostly ride solo, and we definitely have benefits from riding aero road bikes.

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sawyer
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by sawyer

kgt wrote:+1
First three riders this year's GTs
Giro 2017: 1st non aero, 2nd non aero, 3rd non aero
Tour 2017: 1st semi-aero, 2nd non aero, 3rd non aero
Vuelta 2017: 1st semi-aero, 2nd non aero, 3rd non aero


To be fair the Pina is an aero bike, and the aero attributes are prominent in the marketing ... even if not as much as some

Also for the TTs, which form a crucial part of the overall of course, the position is:

Giro 2017: 1st aero, 2nd aero, 3rd aero
Tour 2017: 1st aero, 2nd aero, 3rd aero
Vuelta 2017: 1st aero, 2nd aero, 3rd aero
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

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