New groupset Campagnolo?

[Daniel1975]

Not much to choose for Campy; the big companies like Speci, Cannondale, Canyon are pushing discs into the market. If you/they want it or not.

[jeffy]

I would bet all my bikes that Campagnolo wishes the whole disc brakes on high end road bikes thing would just die a timely death and leave the disc brake market to mountain bikes, cruisers, commuters etc....

aren't you kind of betting all your bikes on this as it is?

[Calnago]

Yup, if the market goes that way, they really don't have a lot of choice but to follow along... too bad, really. Kinda glad they're pairing up with Magura if that is indeed the case. What I'd really like to see perhaps is hydraulic rim brakes brought back to life. Magura attempted it years ago with their HS77 levers (I have some) and hydraulic calipers but that was around the time that shifting was transferring from downtube shifters to combining it with the brake levers. And they've offered them up on the recent Cervelo P3 as well. Couldn't do both shifters/hydro brakes back then, so of course the nod went to shifting at the levers, as it should have. But now, with the compactness of electronic shifting, they have the space to combine both, so there's no reason they couldn't push the hydraulic rim calipers as well for the high end road bikes instead of disc. The better "modulation" doesn't come from the rotors, it comes from the hydraulics. I have a set of Magura hydraulics on my over 15year old touring bike coupled with the HS77 levers and bar end shifters. The effortless action of hydraulic levers is very nice, and I got them because I thought I was about to break the cables sometimes on a steep descent with 90lbs of bike/gear plus me on top. The hydraulic action was really nice in that regard. But rotors would have just gotten in the way of fenders, paniers, etc., plus put a whole lot more stress on the rim and spokes with the braking forces at the hub versus the rim. Aside from rim wear, there are really no disadvantages and a lot of advantages to having the braking force at the rim versus the hub. Since you're not rim deep (or deeper) in mud on a road bike, it's a perfectly fine spot to apply the brakes. So, that's the way I'd like to see improvements in the braking of high end road bikes go, instead of adding discs.

@Jeffy, what do you mean I'm "kind of betting all my bikes" as it is? Because I keep opting for rim brakes and mechanical shifting? If so, I'm ok with that. I just prefer it that way. I think I have enough to last me for quite a while. And one final build about to start... my future proof bike if you will. Will it have discs? Will it be electronic? No to both.

[jeffy]

rim wear is not insignificant.

it is interesting how much of a non event SRAM's rim hydraulic seem to have been, as i agree with you on that point.

[mattr]

rim wear is not insignificant.

Really? My "race" bike rims never wore out, usually got dented or crashed before significant wear occured. Usually replaced after 4 or 5 years, when boredom set in. Or moved to a training bike, where they'd last a winter season or two.

[wingguy]

Kinda glad they're pairing up with Magura if that is indeed the case. What I'd really like to see perhaps is hydraulic rim brakes brought back to life. Magura attempted it years ago with their HS77 levers (I have some) and hydraulic calipers but that was around the time that shifting was transferring from downtube shifters to combining it with the brake levers.

If they're pairing up with Magura then it'd be easy for them to make a set of hydro rim brakes. Magura have already integrated the RT8 into Rotor's Uno STI levers.

Rim brake Uno

[Calnago]

^Yes, those are the ones I mentioned that Magura have paired with the new P3. I'd really like to see more development in this area of the high end road bike braking as opposed to insisting upon frame/drivetrain redesign to accommodate discs.

rim wear is not insignificant.

Really? My "race" bike rims never wore out, usually got dented or crashed before significant wear occured. Usually replaced after 4 or 5 years, when boredom set in. Or moved to a training bike, where they'd last a winter season or two.

A Cat1 racer whose bikes I work on just left my house. He's got a front HED Belgium C2 rimmed wheel that I actually sold to him quite some time ago, like 2 or 3 years ago now. I used it for a couple years before selling the set to him. He rides hard. The rim is toast due to wear and I told him that I wouldn't ride that one more ride for fear of it blowing up and the tire blowing off the rim simultaneously. I've never felt a concave groove that deep on an unbroken rim. He is tempting fate for sure. The point being, along the same lines as @mattr just made is that it takes a helluva lot of use before a rim wears through like that. Winter conditions in a wet climate speed that process up for sure, but those are the exact conditions these wheels have been ridden in. Bottom line for me is that rim wear is part of cycling, just like chains wearing out. Except rim wear to the point of being unusable takes a lot lot longer and I can live with it just fine.

[BRM]

So,

One guy starts a topic about Campa's new groupset, from which noone has information.
Still people feel the need to start all kinds discussions. Amazing!

[Calnago]

A significant part of any discussion of new groupsets from Camapagnolo would most certainly have to encompass what they're doing, not doing, or possible alternatives to the trends in the market around road bike braking technologies. Discussions evolve.

[wingguy]

^Yes, those are the ones I mentioned that Magura have paired with the new P3.

Nope. The ones that Cervelo put on the P5 and used to on the P3 (that spec finished a while ago) were a different brake. The new ones that are part of the Uno groupset are immediately visibly different with a whole other hydraulic cylinder arrangement going on. So they are developing it more

For comparison:



Plus the whole reason that I mentioned them in the first place... They're integrated into the Uno STI. So if Campag are teaming up with Magura and if they want it, it's already been done for them.

[Calnago]

I'm referring to the general concept of hydraulic rim brakes. And by "developing it further" I'm also referring to the general concept of rim hydraulic brakes as an alternative to discs. Not just Magura further developing their line.

[wingguy]

If 'the general concept of hydraulic rim brakes' means the brake on a P3 is the same as the brake in an Uno group then the general concept of dual pivot brakes means this is the same as this and there wasn't any development in between

Whatever. You also said, in the specific context of talking about Magura brakes, "they have the space to combine both, so there's no reason they couldn't push the hydraulic rim calipers as well for the high end road bikes instead of disc and I'm telling you they already are. That's information that should make you happy, and I really don't know why you're trying to manufacture a disagreement about it.

[Calnago]

You really can't help yourself, can you.

[wingguy]

You really can't help yourself, can you.

Providing helpful information you were unaware of? No, I guess not.

Again though, I've no idea why that's something you don't appear to be happy about

[Tinea Pedis]

(wasnt being serious)

But still got him hook, line and sinker

So,

One guy starts a topic about Campa's new groupset, from which noone has information.
Still people feel the need to start all kinds discussions. Amazing!

I'm only here because Cal took the bait.


(and because I hope it's true and might get a trip overseas to cover it)