Moots Vamoost RSL (non disc) vs Canyon Ultimate SLX CF DISC ?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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rolfo
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Hi Fellow bikers,

I'm the proud owner of a Moots Vamoots RSL. It rides superb and it even looks better :-)

I had the opportunity to train in the hills with the Moots and there came the first downside of the bike, climbs like a goat but descending with was not my cup of tea: no actual stopping power (Sram red brakes with Alpha 340 rims, Swiss stop pads). I have to tell you I'm a mountainbike guy who is used to ride with disc brakes, so I'm used to have great braking performance.I totally missed to control which I have on my mountainbikes.

When I came back from the training camp I decided I wanted the same control as on my mountainbikes, so a racebike with disc brakes.
I cannot afford a new disc specific Moots, so I'm thinking of a canyon Ultimate SLX disc bike.

Here comes the question:
Has anyone comparison with these bikes? And am I just a wimp, who needs to work on his downhill skills in the mountains with regular rim brakes? And am I the only one who thinks there a big difference between rim brakes and disc brakes on a race bike ;-)?

Thanks!

Best regards Rolf

by Weenie


Ravnsnaes
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Denmark

by Ravnsnaes

I own a titanium Lynskey R460 (rim brake) and a brand new Canyon Aeroad CF SLX Disc 8.0 Di2. I'd take the stiffer carbon frame and superior brakes of the Canyon all day long... I really like the Lynskey, but from an objective point of view, titanium frames and rim brakes are old outdated technology. Anything your Moots does, the Canyon does better.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3026
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

On alloy rims, rim brakes properly set up should be more then adequate in the dry. You should be able to do anything with them that you can do with discs. So yeah, you are a bit of a wimp. However, of the big three, Campy, Shimano, Sram, the Sram brakes are the weakest. If you are small (sub 160 lb/70 kg) it should be a non issue. But if you are heavier, the right choice of brakes can make a difference. Sram Red is always my groupset of choice, but for the mountains I have a bike with Ultegra calipers (I am 80 kg and while the Red brakes would be fine, the stiffer Ultegra are better).

As to your original question, if you need an excuse to add the Canyon to your stable, then you have my full endorsement - it will be great. (But don't for a moment think that you can get away with 140 mm rotors on the front.)
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

rolfo
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Thanks for the feedback so far! Very helpful, since I have to sell the moots to finance another bike, it is nice to know if I'm on the right track.
Because of the beauty and the way the Moots rides, it will be hard to let her go ;-)

gewichtweenie
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:12 pm

by gewichtweenie

is everything adjusted properly? pads cleaned? try different pads?

rolfo
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Yes, I would say everything is aligned perfecetly. Tried other pads, even thought something was wrong with the rim, but these haven't worn out according to the "wear indicator".
Seems the jump from disc brakes on my mountainbikes to the rim brakes on the moots came as a shock. Neve had these feeling while riding the bike in the windy flat roads.

I think I'll try some other pads just to make sure.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3026
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

rolfo wrote:Seems the jump from disc brakes on my mountainbikes to the rim brakes on the moots came as a shock. Neve had these feeling while riding the bike in the windy flat roads.


Your not alone. Many cyclists who never see a real descent have no idea how critical it is to have good braking. Until you have had to bring you and your bike down from 80 km/h to near zero on a 10 - 15% gradient, lean the bike over for a hairpin, and then repeat ten or twenty times than you've never really tested a set of brakes. Something to think about also - when was the last time you did the above on your mountainbike? You may be surprised to find that the characteristics of your mountainbike's braking that feel so good on the trails won't make that much of a difference in a road descent application. That perfect low speed modulation won't contribute much between 80 and 20 km/h. Will definitely give the hands a rest though.

If you love the ride of the Moots that much, then don't sell it - you'll regret it. Be patient and when you can afford both, go for it (this coming from someone who prefers a carbon bike over any other option). In the mean time you'll just have to slum it on a Vamoots RSL.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

rolfo wrote:Hi Fellow bikers,

I'm the proud owner of a Moots Vamoots RSL. It rides superb and it even looks better :-)

I had the opportunity to train in the hills with the Moots and there came the first downside of the bike, climbs like a goat but descending with was not my cup of tea: no actual stopping power (Sram red brakes with Alpha 340 rims, Swiss stop pads). I have to tell you I'm a mountainbike guy who is used to ride with disc brakes, so I'm used to have great braking performance.I totally missed to control which I have on my mountainbikes.

When I came back from the training camp I decided I wanted the same control as on my mountainbikes, so a racebike with disc brakes.
I cannot afford a new disc specific Moots, so I'm thinking of a canyon Ultimate SLX disc bike.

Here comes the question:
Has anyone comparison with these bikes? And am I just a wimp, who needs to work on his downhill skills in the mountains with regular rim brakes? And am I the only one who thinks there a big difference between rim brakes and disc brakes on a race bike ;-)?

Thanks!

Best regards Rolf


Have you thought of contacting Moots and see if they could upgrade it to disc. Clearly the fork would need to change but the bike might be adaptable. I think I've heard of people doing this with Seven.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

Denavelo
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm

by Denavelo

Comparing road to dirt scenarios are two totally different things. You need the on and off with MTB, but with road you need modulation for easing into hairy turns, etc. It sounds like you need to upgrade to a set of DA calipers.. RED brakes have never been known to be the greatest stoppers out there. EE brakes are insanely light and brake like nothing else (Except DA). Don't skimp on braking as it can be the only defense you have left between you and the pavement and a serious injury. Ride a bike with DA calipers and you'll see what real braking is like. They're that strong!
Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Cannondale SuperSix Evo | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Firefly Ti #419

rolfo
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

Thanks again! Amazing what kind of different views there are this matter, really helpful. I'm going to look into the EE and DA brakes.
Upgrading the frame isn't an option, I'm afraid ;-)

DeLuz
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:30 am

by DeLuz

I am one who thinks disc brakes do not belong on a road bike. Extra weight, looks Fred, extra complications.
I agree DA brakes should be more than adequate. That is what I have on my tandem. Weight of bike + team is 280 lbs.

Marin
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Get a set of the current Shimano R55c4 pads. They will cost you about 10$ if you buy cheap and they work really well. Don't buy a disc road bike.

jasonh
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 6:55 pm

by jasonh

Until we relocated from the NJ to SoCal did I actually realized the importance braking performance. I'll echo the comments of Mr.Gib. i installed alligator I-Link housing and found an improvement in performance over standard campy housing. I'm currnently riding a Tarmac with Record brakes and eurus wheels)
The improvement is enough to provide enough confidence so I can relax while descending. I'm not paid to ride, so I don't take risks. But I enjoy a few lower consequence curves and turns at speed.
I realize this type of housing isn't really appreciated on ww and there are a couple drawbacks. They're not perfect. Most folks will argue that regular housing is fine. Perhaps I'm in the minority. I still think there is value despite the higher cost and I definitely recommend installing link type brake housings, whether its Nokon, Jagwires or I-Links.

by Weenie


rolfo
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

by rolfo

It seems the seed for a disc brake is already planted ;-) I'm not sure wether is makes any sense to invest in a set of brakes of 600 euro.
So The Moots is op for sale (http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=145121, if the right buyer shows up. What do you think of the price?

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