Shifting from small to big chainring on 2015 Campagnolo Super Record

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ctn
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:26 pm

by ctn

The shift from big to small chainring is pretty much instantaneous but the reverse is not true. I find that I need at least one full turn of the crank before it engages. Is this normal or is the adjustment off?
I find on my other bike with Ultegra that the big chainring engages as soon as I turn the lever. I would like this to be the same with the Super Record, if possible. Suggestions please that I can take to my bike mechanic.
Thanks.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Shift from big to small is instantaneous but it should take two clicks to get there, the second being as it hits the stop. When it is in the big ring you should be able to cleanly access (no front derailleur rub) the entire cassette, smallest to largest cogs, without touching the front derailleur.
The move from small to big is equally instantaneous providing it is adjusted correctly. Depending on where the front derailleur is positioned (1st, 2nd, or 3rd position), it can take from 1 to 3 clicks to get to the big ring. First position (most inboard) takes exactly 3 clicks to move cleanly to the big ring. 2nd position takes 2 clicks, and if the front derailleur is in the 3rd position (while on the small chainring), it should take just one click to move to the big ring. Sounds like an adjustment issue. The 2015+ front derailleurs are quite different in their setup than the pre 2015 front derailleurs. Sounds like you need a redo of your adjustment. But first, as a quick troubleshoot to rule out a couple things... back off the outer limit screw of the front derailleur, a lot, just to make sure it is not causing the difficulty in moving from small to big chainrings. I'm also going to assume the front derailleur is attached to the frame correctly and it's outer plate is dead, exactly, perfectly, right on, (do you get the importance of this yet) parallel to the large chainring. If it still doesn't move from small to big ring as it should, you need more tension on the cable. Do you have the inline adjuster installed? If so, with the chain on the big ring up front, and on the largest rear sprocket, adjust the tension till the inside plate of the front derailleur cage is almost, but not quite, touching the chain. Rotate the crank a few revolutions to make sure there is no rub. That's a quick and dirty synopsis. Is your mechanic well versed in post 2015 Campagnolo, or is he just "guessing" or doing it like he always has for the pre 2015 stuff? If it's one of those scenarios then he needs to educate himself on working with the newer stuff or you should take it to someone else more familiar with doing it correctly. Campagnolo has all their technical documentation online.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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by Weenie


fabriciom
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by fabriciom

I have a 2015 chorus an used the campagnolo tool (UT-FD020) to install the front derailleur. For me to go from small to big I have to do it in one pull from position 1 to 3. Other wise the chain will pop out.

My setup is 53-39 with 11-29

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

As Calnago says, this is 99.9% sure to be an assembly / adjustment problem, provided all the elements are Campagnolo and the frame is in spec.

A full rev of the crankset should never be required as the pick-up zones are placed at approx 90 degrees to each other so a full rev would be passing three pick up zones before actuation ...
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

ctn
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:26 pm

by ctn

Thanks Calnago and Graeme. I will show this to my mechanic. He himself uses only Campagnolo on his bikes.

Regarding the shift from big to small, it is instantaneous and I can hear two clicks as I push the button down. But after hearing two clicks, I find that I can still depress the button again and hear another click. Is this normal or is the adjustment off as well.
Thanks.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

That's exactly how it should work. That stop is new, and prevents a complete throw to most inboard position, thus greatly reducing the chances of a dropped chain. At that point, you could still move up to the largest cog in the cassette, but you will probably get a bit of rub on the front derailleur on the largest three cogs or so. That's where the final push comes in... moves the front derailleur just that little bit further to the most inboard position and all is good. No rub, no noise. Bellissimo!
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

ctn
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by ctn

Thanks Calnago.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

@Calnago,

Given the new stop to prevent chain throw to the inboard side, do you feel it is OK to run without a chain catcher? I know that you use them. Being new to Campy I just don't have the experience to know if there is a real risk of a dropped chain. I use chain catchers on my Sram Red equipped bikes, but mostly because the FD comes with one - to their credit they never seem to have problem with dropped chains either.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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dj97223
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by dj97223

I have had 2015 Chorus for over a year, running 34/50 and 11/23, and never dropped a chain. In this regard, the "stop" that Cal mentioned is an improvement. However, unlike the older 10S at least, you need to push the button twice to get from the big to the innermost setting on the small and avoid chain rub on the inside cassette cogs. A bit of a tradeoff.
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Mr.Gib: I just saw and responded to your same question in my C60 thread. It's as @dj97223 describes above.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Boshk
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

Calnago wrote:Shift from big to small is instantaneous but it should take two clicks to get there, the second being as it hits the stop. When it is in the big ring you should be able to cleanly access (no front derailleur rub) the entire cassette, smallest to largest cogs, without touching the front derailleur.
The move from small to big is equally instantaneous providing it is adjusted correctly. Depending on where the front derailleur is positioned (1st, 2nd, or 3rd position), it can take from 1 to 3 clicks to get to the big ring. First position (most inboard) takes exactly 3 clicks to move cleanly to the big ring. 2nd position takes 2 clicks, and if the front derailleur is in the 3rd position (while on the small chainring), it should take just one click to move to the big ring. Sounds like an adjustment issue. The 2015+ front derailleurs are quite different in their setup than the pre 2015 front derailleurs. Sounds like you need a redo of your adjustment. But first, as a quick troubleshoot to rule out a couple things... back off the outer limit screw of the front derailleur, a lot, just to make sure it is not causing the difficulty in moving from small to big chainrings. I'm also going to assume the front derailleur is attached to the frame correctly and it's outer plate is dead, exactly, perfectly, right on, (do you get the importance of this yet) parallel to the large chainring. If it still doesn't move from small to big ring as it should, you need more tension on the cable. Do you have the inline adjuster installed? If so, with the chain on the big ring up front, and on the largest rear sprocket, adjust the tension till the inside plate of the front derailleur cage is almost, but not quite, touching the chain. Rotate the crank a few revolutions to make sure there is no rub. That's a quick and dirty synopsis. Is your mechanic well versed in post 2015 Campagnolo, or is he just "guessing" or doing it like he always has for the pre 2015 stuff? If it's one of those scenarios then he needs to educate himself on working with the newer stuff or you should take it to someone else more familiar with doing it correctly. Campagnolo has all their technical documentation online.


Sorry for butting in with a non-SR question.....

I'm still having annoying sounds from my Chorus 2015+ setup (only 300km on it). 50/34 12/29
In small chainring, I don't really hear the sound (so I assume its not the cassette or chain) but in the large chainring, once I get to middle of the cassette from the hardest gears, there is a grinding sound.

You state that the FR needs to be 'perfectly parallel' to the large chainring. I don't have the campy tool to align it. My bike requires a band-on 34.9mm and the LBS used a generic band-on instead of the Campy one. My question, does the FR outer edge have to be flushed/in-line with the large chainring or just perfectly parallel? at the moment, the outer plate is actually just inside of the large chainring.

I assume being in the middle of the cassette is usually the most efficient gear combo...(least bending of chain) but its annoying with the sound....

suggestions?
Oltre XR3, Diverge DSW

kurisu
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:10 am

by kurisu

The back part of the cage should be parallel to the chainring.

@Calnago wrote a beautiful step-by-step for setting up Campy mechanical. Have you seen it?
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=142391&start=75#p1299367

As for grinding noise, for short chainstays (close to the 405mm minimum limit Campy requires), a little bit of noise in the smallest cog/big ring is unavoidable in my experience. But it should be slight, only noticeable when not on the bike and just turning the crank on the work stand. And the other positions/combinations should be silent.
Litespeed T5 | No. 22 Great Divide | Ridley Helium SL | No. 22 Reactor

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dj97223
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by dj97223

Boshk,

Try to determine first where the noise is coming from. If you are in the big ring and middle of the cassette, it seems unlikely that your chain is hitting the front der. If it is hitting, and it is hitting the outer side of the cage, then I'm guessing you have either an alignment problem or perhaps the outer limit screw needs to be backed off. The latter is a much easier fix and should be tried before attempting to re-align the cage.
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

by Weenie


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Calnago
Posts: 5622
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Boshk wrote:Sorry for butting in with a non-SR question.....

I'm still having annoying sounds from my Chorus 2015+ setup (only 300km on it). 50/34 12/29
In small chainring, I don't really hear the sound (so I assume its not the cassette or chain) but in the large chainring, once I get to middle of the cassette from the hardest gears, there is a grinding sound.

You state that the FR needs to be 'perfectly parallel' to the large chainring. I don't have the campy tool to align it. My bike requires a band-on 34.9mm and the LBS used a generic band-on instead of the Campy one. My question, does the FR outer edge have to be flushed/in-line with the large chainring or just perfectly parallel? at the moment, the outer plate is actually just inside of the large chainring.

I assume being in the middle of the cassette is usually the most efficient gear combo...(least bending of chain) but its annoying with the sound....

suggestions?

I think your adjustment is off. Chorus or SR, it's still the same. But on big ring and middle of cassette that's about as good as it gets for a silent smooth running drive train. Do you have the inline adjuster installed for the front derailleur? The correct tension on the front derailleur cable is critical for mechanical front derailleurs from 2015 onwards, but if you get it right, it's just so nice. The trouble is getting it right, which unfortunately, is more rare than common. Make sure when you are adjusting the tension for the cable (which should be done with the chain on the big ring up front and largest ring at the back), that the high limit screw on the front derailleur is backed off and the left shifter (front derailleur) is in the third position. Adjust the tension so that the inner plate of the front derailleur is almost touching the chain (less than 0.5mm of clearance, as close as possible with no rub while riding) in that spot. And yes, the front derailleur cage must be parallel to the rings, and you don't need the "tool" to do this. In fact, I prefer using a larger allen key layed flat against the teetht of the big ring so that it barely grazes the length of the "outer" (not inner), face of the front derailleur plate.

Of course, I'm assuming your rear derailleur hanger is in alignment, chain length is good, and there is no friction happening in the cables.

And what @Kurisu said above, stating that in the big ring and smallest cog some noise is virtually unavoidable, I don't get that at all. Perhaps he just made a typo and meant to say small/small, totally crosschained, with short chainstays and the compact 34/50 chainring combo. That would be the only scenario that I would accept even a slight amount of noise, with perhaps a tiny bit of rub from the chain on the innerside of the big ring when totally crossed. But using either a mid compact (36/52) or standard rings (39/53), with chainstays at least 405mm in length and standard (non-disc) rear dropout spacing of 130mm, you should be able to dial that in so that any combination of gears is possible with no rub.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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