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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Posts: 266
Location: UK
Gazelleer wrote:
How would you define 'looking after' a battery?


Lithium Ion batteries should not be left fully discharged and nor should the user take it for granted that the battery if stored fully charged will maintain that full charge forever, even if it is not in-circuit - it won't.

Proper battery maintenance includes a periodic (I'd recommend 3 months) re-charge to "charge light out on the charger" status, in order to prevent under-volting (as permanent damage to a Li-ion battery by this route is called). Hence the recommendation in the EPS PU manual.

Campagnolo use some extra components in the PU that basically switch off a left-switched-on system once the battery output falls below 7.2v in order to slow down the drain on the battery ... but those components won't protect the battery from the eventual damage caused by the natural degradation in charge that all batteries suffer from over time, whether attached to a circuit or not. Once the battery has fully discharched by this natural degradtion route, the chances of damage by under-volting start to accumulate (if you'll forgive the pun).

Storage above 50 deg C and below -20 deg C is also damaging to the battery used in EPS and can again lead to shortened battery life or a reduction in the number of charge cycles before the amount of charge that can be accumulated starts to fall off significantly.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:21 pm 
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Location: Canada
graeme_f_k wrote:
ferrarista wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Fantastic. 4 months after I bought Bora Ultra tubulars... :(

What's new in the Bora line?


Nothing worth upgrading. They just added some grooves to the braking surface. The grooves are so thin I would not be surprised if they disappear after a few thousand km lol.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=145396


Actually, no .... the grooves are a by-product of the AC3 lasering process that removes additional resin from the braking surface. You are quite right in that the grooves (which do indeed wear away in use anyway) have no effect - the AC3 process makes a heck of a difference in wet weather braking though ... in dry, barely any, but a bit ...



Exactly. If the person doesn't ride in the wet, it is not worth it losing money to buy the new version when the regular one does a good job in the dry.
But some people like to always have the latest products no matter what.

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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:21 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Location: Canada
graeme_f_k wrote:
wingguy wrote:
graeme_f_k wrote:
corky wrote:
They are more than just a battery....

More than half the processing is done inside the PU - it's why we call it a "Power Unit" and not a "Battery" ...

But is that a benefit for the consumer? If you have a problem with the battery outside of warranty you could be left having to pay for a whole bunch of complicated and expensive electronics that were working fine anyway in order to replace what should be a simple and straightforward part, no? Why package it all together if you don't need to.

Especially since the interface is also twice as expensive as a DI2 junction box, even though so much of the processing is in the battery...


Yes, there is a benefit to the consumer - almost complete reverse compatibility and two less breaks in the wiring loom - the breaks in the wiring loom constitute possible points of failure / water leakage so that in practice we have found (and although we contract to Campagnolo I work at high level on everbody's systems) less problems with wiring loom issues in Campagnolo than Shimano.

Battery issues are almost non-existent so long as you look after the battery - OK, if you really abuse the battery, you can kill it, it's true - but one would hope that someone buying product at this level would take the time to understand how to look after the product and take the time / spend the money to maintain it.


Where I work we see less problems with Shimano Di2 than Campy EPS. We never see a Di2 return for problems or very rarely in the last few years. There always seems to be one EPS bike a week come back for problems. Excluding crash or adjustments problems, most of the time it is the battery. It is known that V1 battery had a lot of problems , V2 some problems and we already swapped several V3 batteries under warranty. And those batteries were brand new with few charging cycles. I think one of the problems is that a lot of times the batteries arrive from Italy discharged. Maybe that's what causes problems as it damages one or more cells in the battery. There are still V1 batteries around with no problems. Like you said it might just be a user problem letting the battery drain too much. If you can you should not let the battery drop below 20% and if the bike is not being used for a long period, leaving a battery charged at 100% is not good either as it degrades the cells. That's pretty much true for any lithium battery.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Getting a little off topic I suppose, but I see the charging issues as a major drawback for the "average" cyclists, which for the most part would never be on a forum like this let alone even think of researching an issue online relating to their bike when they could just take it to the local shop. For those people... they may not even ride their bikes a whole bunch... they go out, they ride, then it may sit unused for quite a while. And for these folks, I doubt they want to be on a schedule to or even think about going out to plug their bike in when not in use to make sure the battery doesn't completely discharge etc. And they can't leave it plugged in because that's bad too. So... winter comes and goes... the first nice spring/summer day arrives that they want to go for a bike ride and so they dust off the bike and find their shifting doesn't work. Worse yet, the battery may be damaged and they have to spring for a new one. There goes that chance for the first nice ride of the year.

I was checking out a new Emonda that I built for someone a couple of months ago. He wanted Dura Ace 9100 mechanical. I told him to bring it back after a while and I'd check things out, make sure everything was spot on etc. It needed a very minor adjustment to the rear derailleur cable, otherwise it was shifting perfectly and smoothly. I just still say that the disadvantages of an electric system over a well tuned mechanical system outweigh the advantages. The advantage of the electric system are that it's easier to set up so that it shifts perfectly, oh, and it clearly has advantages with tt bikes (for multiple shift locations) and bikes with awkward cable routings where sharp bends could compromise a mechanical shift systems performance. But other than that, I just still love the mechanical shift systems hands down over the electric stuff, barring tt applications. But I also enjoy being able to work on my own bikes and like keeping them in top top shape, and understand that's not everyone's cup of tea. But most of all I hate not being able to diagnose a problem quickly and easily if something does go wrong, and that's what is happening more and more with the electrical issues... lots of head scratching, version searching, compatibility questions, availability of units that quickly go out of date etc. Plusses and minuses to both for sure.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:22 am 
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Location: Canada
That's exactly why I will never buy an electric groupset. I don't want to worry about the battery all the time. I just want to hop in and go ride. I would really love for Campy to develop an hydraulic derailleur groupset. No more need to swap cables/housings and perfect shifting all the time with a sealed system that would last the lifetime of the groupset. I imagine it would also be lighter.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:54 pm 
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spotted!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Location: Sweden
Is this compatible with the new Trek Crockett frame? Any news on a cross crankset ?

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Ride lots!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:57 pm
Posts: 25
Full compatibility with Disc Brake frames
Thanks to the specific chainring
positions the Campagnolo H11
crankset allows the best
functionality with both 135 and 142
mm O.L.D.

Q factor maintened at 145,5 mm
Thanks to its new shape
Campagnolo doesn’t need to
increase the Q factor dimension,
allowing the riders to ride at the top
of his performance


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:22 am 
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Posts: 634
New Bora carbon brake-track...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 am 
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Posts: 136
Still can't seem to get any news on when Centaur (or anything else new, for that matter) will be in stores.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Location: Reading, UK
Yeah I'd like to know that too.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:12 am 
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Location: UK
Miller wrote:
Yeah I'd like to know that too.


First disc groups will be in the UK in 3 weeks or so. Centaur likely to be Autumn.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:17 am 
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Posts: 112
graeme_f_k wrote:
Miller wrote:
Yeah I'd like to know that too.


First disc groups will be in the UK in 3 weeks or so. Centaur likely to be Autumn.


Thanks for the info! Do you've any pricing information?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Posts: 634
New bora wheels are allready availabe.


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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:16 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Southern California
I have a pair of Zipp 404 NSW's and Bora Ultra 50 clinchers. The only thing the Zipps do better than the Bora's is braking.

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