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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:20 am 
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Posts: 293
Location: Finland
wingguy wrote:
grover wrote:
wingguy wrote:
superdx wrote:
Interested to hear opinions from people who actually own a CAAD12! Another frame in my consideration is the carbon Ultimate CF SLX disc.

The CAAD12 disc is MUCH heavier than the CAAD12. I've got the 105 disc as my winter bike and while it's nice to ride it'd never be a summer replacement for my Evo.

The CAAD12 disc frameset is actually lighter than the CAAD12 rim frameset.

No way. Certainly not frame/fork together. Not a snowball's chance in hell.


I would say the disc and non-disc CAAD12 frame is the same weight, although the disc version is a bit lighter: the difference is 4 g (1098 vs 1094 g). The fork makes the difference: my uncut non-disc fork was 358 g and according to the forum posts the disc version is 430 g uncut.

I don't think that 70 g makes any real difference when climbing.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 502
grover wrote:
wingguy wrote:
superdx wrote:
Interested to hear opinions from people who actually own a CAAD12! Another frame in my consideration is the carbon Ultimate CF SLX disc.

The CAAD12 disc is MUCH heavier than the CAAD12. I've got the 105 disc as my winter bike and while it's nice to ride it'd never be a summer replacement for my Evo.



The CAAD12 disc frameset is actually lighter than the CAAD12 rim frameset. The parts on it are the problem! If you're starting from a frameset you're ahead. Choose your parts carefully and you end up with a nice light bike.

Consider SRAM.
Light wheels and good tyres.
Finishing kit eg. bars/stem/post/seat.
Lots of weight to be saved over a stock build.


I'll be starting from the frameset. Already have all the parts except the wheels, 25.4mm seatpost and the brakes. Going with cable discs as a full hydraulic groupset is just a bit too much spend.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:00 am 


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 502
srshaw wrote:
Pretty sure the Caad12 disc forks will be heavier, so overall it's heavier. Just built up my caad12 disc as a winter bike with Trp hy rd brakes, shimano 5700 and some mavic open pro/xt disc hubs (and conti gator skins) and it's about 8.8kg. Quite a bit heavier than my summer bike, a Planet X pro carbon with dura ace 9000.

Strangely though I'm getting loads of pbs on strava whilst climbing. Probably more of an indication that the pro carbon isn't that great, but I quite enjoy climbing on the caad. Really seems to just surge forwards.

I think next upgrade will be to get an evo frame for my summer bike though, I imagine that will be awesome.


Good feedback! I think I'll be able to get the weight down a bit tho.

Might do some begging and see if my LBS will allow me to strip an SS EVO hi-mod disc bike, that would be a no brainer. I'm eyeing the 105 CAAD12 bike, they don't have a problem stripping that as the components aren't expensive at all.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 582
superdx wrote:
Going with cable discs as a full hydraulic groupset is just a bit too much spend.


If you want to go disc, you should go hydraulic. Otherwise there is absolutely no point in getting a disc bike (maybe if you ride dirt all the time it makes sense).


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:44 am
Posts: 723
cep111 wrote:
Are you guys sure you can't use 25mm tires on your older EVO's? I have a Caad 9, 7 and a Six13 and I have no issues at all using 25's with Firecrest rims on any of these frames?


On the rear, definitely can't. I tried it, and it is way, way too close. Rubbing occurs. On the front, like I said, a 25mm with 28mm outer width rim is fine (might even be able to get a 28mm in there, but I haven't tried)

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 Post subject: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:04 am 
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Posts: 983
2017 CAAD12 doesn't support flat mount disc caliper (released in 2015) and thru-axle (released in 2015) is only on the front wheel. Why bother with outdated technology and compatibility issues down the road? Let's hope Cannondale will update 2018 model.

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:38 am
Posts: 21
TheDarkInstall wrote:
Mate, come on... climbing is 99.9% about your fitness, power to weight and how you feel on the day. The reviews telling you about 'significant' improvements over the CAAD10 for climbing are just spouting hyberbole. Getting a CAAD12 is not going to suddenly make you climb better.


THIS - Best.Advice.Ever... Couldn't have said it better myself.

Put it this way, some of my climbing PR's on Strava were clocked on my heavier (but comfier) Synapse - what does that tell you?

For what it's worth, going with discs (Evo or CAAD12) will give you better braking confidence on descents, but dont be fooled into thinking it will cut minutes off your climbs off the bat. At the end of the day it is still a human powered machine.

Also FYI, I had my 2013 SS Evo with 25mm tires front & rear with no rubbing issues whatsoever. I also ran 28 on my new '17 Evo and there is still plenty of clearance...


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 3324
mpulsiv wrote:
2017 CAAD12 doesn't support flat mount disc caliper (released in 2015) and thru-axle (released in 2015) is only on the front wheel.

Actually CAAD12 is QR front and rear. The Evo has front thru-axle.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 502
mikey168 wrote:
TheDarkInstall wrote:
Mate, come on... climbing is 99.9% about your fitness, power to weight and how you feel on the day. The reviews telling you about 'significant' improvements over the CAAD10 for climbing are just spouting hyberbole. Getting a CAAD12 is not going to suddenly make you climb better.


THIS - Best.Advice.Ever... Couldn't have said it better myself.

Put it this way, some of my climbing PR's on Strava were clocked on my heavier (but comfier) Synapse - what does that tell you?

For what it's worth, going with discs (Evo or CAAD12) will give you better braking confidence on descents, but dont be fooled into thinking it will cut minutes off your climbs off the bat. At the end of the day it is still a human powered machine.

Also FYI, I had my 2013 SS Evo with 25mm tires front & rear with no rubbing issues whatsoever. I also ran 28 on my new '17 Evo and there is still plenty of clearance...


Wasn't really seeing if it would help me climb better. I'm fairly certain the Evo is a better climbing frame all around. Just didn't think it would be as fun, as my CAAD10 definitely isn't (same size, nearly same setup). I use the CAAD10 on trips as I don't want to risk the more expensive Evo components in a bike bag.

This gets thrown around a lot in climbing gear threads. Don't think the obvious needs to be stated, but thanks tho.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 502
wingguy wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:
2017 CAAD12 doesn't support flat mount disc caliper (released in 2015) and thru-axle (released in 2015) is only on the front wheel.

Actually CAAD12 is QR front and rear. The Evo has front thru-axle.


Good info, I've read countless threads and the setup seems to vary from article to article.

Guess that made my decision. Want to get something thru-axles all around as QR with discs seems to a really bad idea with regards to pad/rotor alignment.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm
Posts: 983
superdx wrote:
wingguy wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:
2017 CAAD12 doesn't support flat mount disc caliper (released in 2015) and thru-axle (released in 2015) is only on the front wheel.

Actually CAAD12 is QR front and rear. The Evo has front thru-axle.


Good info, I've read countless threads and the setup seems to vary from article to article.

Guess that made my decision. Want to get something thru-axles all around as QR with discs seems to a really bad idea with regards to pad/rotor alignment.


Don't forget about flat mount disc caliper support. It's lighter, cleaner look, cleaner installation and, in theory, a more aero set-up. The biggest benefit of flat mount brakes, frankly, is the space it saves on the frame and the ease of which you can access the calipers.  So chapeau to the Shimano for coming up with this standard and making the life of shop and home wrenches a bit easier.
Remember - you can mount post mount calipers on flat mount frames with an adapter but you can’t do the reverse.

Image

_________________
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

:nospamhere:


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:38 am
Posts: 21
superdx wrote:
Wasn't really seeing if it would help me climb better.

Sorry perhaps I misread the point of your original post, since you did infer that the CAAD10 was 'slower'


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:39 am 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm
Posts: 803
Regarding tiresize on Evo hi-mods. I have both a 2012 and a 2014 version. The curious thing is, that the older one takes 25 mm tires rear, and the newer one doesn't :unbelievable:


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:47 pm
Posts: 64
TheDarkInstall wrote:
superdx wrote:
Been eyeing a '17 CAAD12 disc frame, and currently have an '13 Evo and '14 CAAD10 in the barn. I really like my Evo, and 95% of my rides involve some kind of crazy climb with 15%++ gradients. It's comfortable, seems to want to jump forward when power is put down and just a joy to ride in. On the CAAD10: My biggest rides have been on this bike (> 200km) but I find climbing in it to be a slower and bit of a "dead" feeling.

Every review on the CAAD12 seems to indicate that it's a significantly improved frame from the CAAD10 and that it's a very very good climbing frame as it is very stiff.

Interested to hear opinions from people who actually own a CAAD12! Another frame in my consideration is the carbon Ultimate CF SLX disc.


Mate, come on... climbing is 99.9% about your fitness, power to weight and how you feel on the day.


Well, it start certainly with your fitness, but I must admit, when I changed bikes and moved to a CAAD10, I certainly felt that it was stiffer and climbing better. Way better then my previous bike, which was a alu based Canyon. And they know their alu stuff too ! So it can certainly pay off to switch to CAAD12 based on my experience.


BTW. I went back to 23mm (based on rim brakes though). 25mm is highly overrated. 28mm, yes, I understand there is a benefit. 25mm, no - doesn't add any value over 23mm.

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Posts: 502
mikey168 wrote:
superdx wrote:
Wasn't really seeing if it would help me climb better.

Sorry perhaps I misread the point of your original post, since you did infer that the CAAD10 was 'slower'


It's a hair slower but not where I'm trailing PRs by minutes. It just doesn't feel as reactive. It feels "ploddy". The Evo feels like you get 105% effort out. CAAD10 feels like you get 95%. Note that this is just "feel".


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD12 for climbing?
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:18 pm 


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