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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4911
MyM3Coupe wrote:
tommasini wrote:
Good point as for the most part bb30 is an ok idea that caused more problems than solutions. Thus on the way out

Installed correctly, BB30 is fine 99% of the time, and builds up a light frame. It's only "going out" as it's expensive as hell to install it correctly (wicked tolerances). It's not good for mass produced frames. I have two Time frames with thousands of miles with BB30 and the cranks spin beautifully.
On the topic SCAM is light as it's crap. Several people in out riding groups have had issues with it. It's either Shimano or Campagnolo for long lasting components.

BB30, while never really been fully adopted as Cannondale would have hoped, has other issues than strictly being "expensive as hell to install correctly". That part, sadly, has stuck with us in the form of all kinds of press fit proliferations, regardless of whether BB30 is employed or not. But something that rarely gets touched on is that one of the main reasons for BB30 in the first place was to be able to use a larger diameter spindle made of aluminum alloy and have the whole thing be stiff and light. Trouble is, aluminum alloy is arguably just not a very good material for that application. It expands and contracts with temperature changes quite readily, far more readily than steel. I'm sure you're aware of people freezing their aluminum spindles to get them installed through the bearings. And those bearing tolerances need to be adhered to, so it was a perfect storm of imperfect installations in imperfectly round shells and surfaces rubbing on each other to create that incessant creak creak creak that has become so prevalent in today's bike world. It's nice that frame manufacturers have larger bb shells to center their frame designs around, but maybe the steel ~24mm spindle is still simply the strongest, most reliable and trouble free form to attach a couple of crank arms to and still be able to have room for good size reliable bearings under all circumstances.

Colnago C60 - PR99; C59 Five Years Later; My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet

Last edited by Calnago on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:54 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Norwich, UK
Sram getting the hate, but it's DA that severs people's cables and their exploding cassettes. I find the shifting of Red 22 very precise and fast. DA is a lighter action, but I find it kinda vague compared to Red, which just clicks into gear the second you hit that shifter paddle.

Unlike Campy, no stetching out for the little button placed just in the most inconvenient place where you can barely reach it from the drops. Campy spare parts supposedly hard to source and their components stupidly expensive.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it's subjective for all of us individuals, but you can pick problems with anything. On the WW forum you can't discount the group that has the lightest shifters, RD and cassette that give up literally nothing in pure performance terms.

Supersix Evo Hi-Mod - 4.51kg

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:11 am
Posts: 130
Look595 wrote:
Curious on how can the Sram red 22 groupset be 200 grams lighter than the Campagnolo SR and Shimano Dura-ace 9100 groupset as a whole. How come the other 2 brands still cannot cut the total weight any further as to the same as Sram Red 22 :noidea:

Just a bit of fun using the Total cycling weights sent earlier in this thread, Campagnolo also had a 30mm option (Over-Torque) really great design which sadly never took off.

Combined with a direct pressfit bearing (not pf30/bb386) not the greatest solution.

Total cycling weights

RD 155
FD 72
ERGO 330
Cassette 177
Chain 239
Calipers 122x2 singles pivots, madness? (bikerumor actual weights)
Ultra Comp 563 claimed
BB30 54 claimed

SR as above 1834g
RED GXP 1868g (as per total cycling table)

Considering Campagnolo Over-Torque can be used in basically any bike BB shell besides bb90 (no space for the bearings due to the 37mm ID) should we consider it the lightest groupset on the planet?

Yes the Sram red bb30 option is 1764g (total cycling) but afaik it still uses the shorter spindle which cannot clear wider frames, unlike the OT crank which can be used from BSA threaded up till BB386EVO.

guyc wrote:
Because they're a little more conservative and build their kit with longevity and durability in mind. Most would agree that SRAM kit, as great as it is, isn't as durable.

Unfortunaley I have to agree with this, going through two sets of RED double tap shifters. the internals just don't last as long. That being said the RED cassette design is just years ahead imho. They made it lighter but also more durable due to the smart engineering design. really wish Campagnolo would (if they even could )do something similar.

Or maybe Sram should ditch Shimano and make a Campagnolo splined and tuned version (Blasphemy!!!!)....that will be the day all Hell breaks out.

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