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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:23 pm 
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Posts: 1007
lyrictenor1 wrote:
Those of you saying that Canyon using theie bikes in trainers for marketing should keep them from being able to deny warranty claims, think about this: How many car manufacturers use their street cars in advertising as a race cars, or hell, even sponsor/build race cars in pro racinf. Yet, their warranties specifically state that if you use the car for racing, you void the warranty. It's the same thing here: You can use the bike on the trainer, but that doesn't come without its own risks. You takes yer chances.


Anyone found a worse 'analogy' on the internet this week? :lol:


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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:23 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:32 pm
Posts: 81
scottmmw wrote:
Canyon designed the bike for the road, not to sit on a trainer hence why they won't cover any damage done on a trainer. Definitely didn't stop me buying one, in fact it never even entered my head as an issue.

Agree 100%. Imagine the torsional forces (frame not designed for) in the upper and lower chainstays on a trainer? I don't blame Canyon one bit.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:36 am 
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Posts: 151
Everyone else's frames seem to be doing just fine


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:16 am 
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There's a screenshot of the warranty card from Canyon that guys from Zwift blogged about http://zwiftblog.com/will-indoor-traini ... rbon-frame

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Posts: 293
Location: Finland
Instead of just gut feeling and myths, there are also real studies of the forces the bike frame must endure while on trainer. The German magazine Tour investigated the issue already on 2007 or 2008: the result was that the frame is put under much higher stress while sprinting on the road than on the trainer.

Of course all riders must make the decision by themselves.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:41 pm 
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kervelo wrote:
Instead of just gut feeling and myths, there are also real studies of the forces the bike frame must endure while on trainer. The German magazine Tour investigated the issue already on 2007 or 2008: the result was that the frame is put under much higher stress while sprinting on the road than on the trainer.

Of course all riders must make the decision by themselves.


That's VERY surprising.

Any explanation for all this?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Location: Norwich, UK
Why not put your alu winter bike in the trainer? Then you have nothing to worry about.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Location: Bay Area, CA
kervelo wrote:
Instead of just gut feeling and myths, there are also real studies of the forces the bike frame must endure while on trainer. The German magazine Tour investigated the issue already on 2007 or 2008: the result was that the frame is put under much higher stress while sprinting on the road than on the trainer.

Of course all riders must make the decision by themselves.


Here's the test for anyone curious:
http://www.tour-magazin.de/service/ratg ... /a173.html

It makes me wonder if the policy isn't related to some specific damage they see reoccurring (like the dropout wear people have mentioned).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:53 am 
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Posts: 64
BeeSeeBee wrote:
kervelo wrote:
Instead of just gut feeling and myths, there are also real studies of the forces the bike frame must endure while on trainer. The German magazine Tour investigated the issue already on 2007 or 2008: the result was that the frame is put under much higher stress while sprinting on the road than on the trainer.

Of course all riders must make the decision by themselves.


Here's the test for anyone curious:
http://www.tour-magazin.de/service/ratg ... /a173.html

It makes me wonder if the policy isn't related to some specific damage they see reoccurring (like the dropout wear people have mentioned).


It is dropout wear/breakage.

When you stand up while pedalling on the road and rock your bike side to side there is nothing stopping your bike from moving and therefore there is no increased force on the dropout.

Now think about what happens in a trainer like a Kickr where your dropouts are locked in and the bike is fixed in a vertical plane. Now when you stand up and pedal the bike still wants to rock side to side but it cannot. What is stoping it? Well it's the dropouts being locked to the trainer. Now the side to side force is being absorbed by your carbon dropouts. They can slowly start to be destroyed like what happened to mine or the dropout could actually break off completely.

There is no way any carbon dropout should ever be placed in a Kickr unless you only pedal high cadence (low force) and never stand up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:28 pm 
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This is nothing new really, that trainers load a frame in a manner it's not built for.
Question is, is it better to put it clearly in the open, that this voids the warranty.
Or, when or/ if the bike cracks and you try to use your warranty and they claim your bike is damaged due to faulty usage?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 845
cunn1n9 wrote:
BeeSeeBee wrote:
kervelo wrote:
Instead of just gut feeling and myths, there are also real studies of the forces the bike frame must endure while on trainer. The German magazine Tour investigated the issue already on 2007 or 2008: the result was that the frame is put under much higher stress while sprinting on the road than on the trainer.

Of course all riders must make the decision by themselves.


Here's the test for anyone curious:
http://www.tour-magazin.de/service/ratg ... /a173.html

It makes me wonder if the policy isn't related to some specific damage they see reoccurring (like the dropout wear people have mentioned).


It is dropout wear/breakage.

When you stand up while pedalling on the road and rock your bike side to side there is nothing stopping your bike from moving and therefore there is no increased force on the dropout.

Now think about what happens in a trainer like a Kickr where your dropouts are locked in and the bike is fixed in a vertical plane. Now when you stand up and pedal the bike still wants to rock side to side but it cannot. What is stoping it? Well it's the dropouts being locked to the trainer. Now the side to side force is being absorbed by your carbon dropouts. They can slowly start to be destroyed like what happened to mine or the dropout could actually break off completely.

There is no way any carbon dropout should ever be placed in a Kickr unless you only pedal high cadence (low force) and never stand up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was wondering : the forces are equal, but wouldn't it be safer to use bikes with TA's on rollers than with QR's? With TA's, no way you get any play between bike and roller, where that could easily occur with not tight enough QR's .

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Posts: 81
4ibanez wrote:
Why not put your alu winter bike in the trainer? Then you have nothing to worry about.


^^^^^^^^^^Winner!^^^^^^^^^
So true. Personally, I'd rather use rollers than a trainer, but for those that do, it's best to have a crappy aluminum bike around for putting in a trainer.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:22 am 
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Posts: 172
Even though it looks like BS, many manufacturers say that trainer void warranty. Bear in mind trainer can damage dropouts made of CFRP. Still, it is BS since I am in consumer side.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:38 pm
Posts: 10
cunn1n9 wrote:

It is dropout wear/breakage.

When you stand up while pedalling on the road and rock your bike side to side there is nothing stopping your bike from moving and therefore there is no increased force on the dropout.

Now think about what happens in a trainer like a Kickr where your dropouts are locked in and the bike is fixed in a vertical plane. Now when you stand up and pedal the bike still wants to rock side to side but it cannot. What is stoping it? Well it's the dropouts being locked to the trainer. Now the side to side force is being absorbed by your carbon dropouts. They can slowly start to be destroyed like what happened to mine or the dropout could actually break off completely.

There is no way any carbon dropout should ever be placed in a Kickr unless you only pedal high cadence (low force) and never stand up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Carbon doesn't wear. It has no fatigue like aluminium. Carbon breaks, it delaminates, but there is no insidious wear like metal which flexes slightly with force exerted and may fail down the road.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 64
destinationwarmth wrote:
cunn1n9 wrote:

It is dropout wear/breakage.

When you stand up while pedalling on the road and rock your bike side to side there is nothing stopping your bike from moving and therefore there is no increased force on the dropout.

Now think about what happens in a trainer like a Kickr where your dropouts are locked in and the bike is fixed in a vertical plane. Now when you stand up and pedal the bike still wants to rock side to side but it cannot. What is stoping it? Well it's the dropouts being locked to the trainer. Now the side to side force is being absorbed by your carbon dropouts. They can slowly start to be destroyed like what happened to mine or the dropout could actually break off completely.

There is no way any carbon dropout should ever be placed in a Kickr unless you only pedal high cadence (low force) and never stand up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Carbon doesn't wear. It has no fatigue like aluminium. Carbon breaks, it delaminates, but there is no insidious wear like metal which flexes slightly with force exerted and may fail down the road.


To be specific the issue I had was delamination between the layers. The dropout became flaky and weak. By bike shop noticed it when they tried to fix my poorly changing gears. The dropout was weakened sufficiently to make the hanger unstable. I had the dropout rebuilt by a carbon repaired under insurance claim and all is well now. He told me never to put a carbon dropout bike in a trainer as this can happen. Rollers are fine of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:21 am 


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