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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:10 am 
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Posts: 97
Stueys wrote:
Shrike wrote:
scottmmw wrote:
Canyon designed the bike for the road, not to sit on a trainer hence why they won't cover any damage done on a trainer. Definitely didn't stop me buying one, in fact it never even entered my head as an issue.


Precisely the problem.

People should know and be made aware clearly of trainer policy as Zwift etc are increasingly prevalent, and the marketing regularly shows posh carbon bikes on them. Tacx has a model sprinting out of the saddle on an expensive carbon Colnago frame in their video marketing for the Flux, for example.

Any play at all in the rear dropouts will quickly wear carbon away. People need to be super careful and get the bike on tight, making sure the dropouts are definitely fully engaged on the axle.

Hopefully we'll see manufacturers up their game when it comes to designing both trainers and frames to better accommodate trainer usage. They can't simply write the situation off by saying, 'oh well just use a crap bike you don't mind breaking on it if something goes wrong'. That's not reflective of actual usage.


The hilarious thing is that canyon have been very active with their marketing and sponsorship on zwift, competitions, pro team event, climbing event, canyon bikes on zwift etc. Somewhat ironic when it appears you can't use their bikes on a trainer....


You can use the bike on a trainer, but any damage wont be covered by Canyon.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:13 am 
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tilf wrote:
Stueys wrote:
The hilarious thing is that canyon have been very active with their marketing and sponsorship on zwift, competitions, pro team event, climbing event, canyon bikes on zwift etc. Somewhat ironic when it appears you can't use their bikes on a trainer....


They even post pictures of their bikes being used on trainers. They would have a very difficult time denying a warranty when they essentially market it via social media using pictures of their bikes on trainers. German/EU law provides pretty good consumer protections -- might be harder for those outside the EU to get government involvement though.


It wouldn't be very hard at all. You'd tell them the damage occurred while the bike was on a trainer and they would quote there T&C's. That would be the end of.


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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:13 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:30 am 
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scottmmw wrote:
It wouldn't be very hard at all. You'd tell them the damage occurred while the bike was on a trainer and they would quote there T&C's. That would be the end of.


And then you go to court -- and stand a good chance of not only winning but taking punitive damages too for deceptive advertising.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:01 pm 
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tilf wrote:
scottmmw wrote:
It wouldn't be very hard at all. You'd tell them the damage occurred while the bike was on a trainer and they would quote there T&C's. That would be the end of.


And then you go to court -- and stand a good chance of not only winning but taking punitive damages too for deceptive advertising.


Im 99% sure that not a single person will take it to court!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:14 pm 
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It's extra funny because the newest member of the Canyon/SRAM squad is there because of Zwift.

I agree with the earlier poster that mentioned carbon dropouts. It's not snapped seat- or chainstays, it's dropout damage. Properly designed trainers used properly pose no issue but it only takes a poorly designed trainer or someone clamping their tiny carbon/Ti skewers into one to cause problems, and it's safer (or, easier and lazier) to blanket-ban.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Posts: 1353
Location: UK
I don't think it's just an issue with over-tightening skewers. I've ridden with a number of people over the years whose skewers weren't tightened anywhere tight enough.
Doing the same on a trainer could grind away the dropouts very quickly.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Its not only Canyon. Think a few manufacturers where the same. Pretty sure I saw an article on road.cc about it the other day.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Specialized also


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:02 am 
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Posts: 1099
I suspect this as a non issue.

I don't see a catastrophic failure of the frame happening on a trainer such as complete chainstay/seatstay snap such as impact from a crash or pothole.

Rather a fatigue related failure over time could occur. This would be no different from a fatigue related failure with on road use. I suspect this type of failure is not what Canyon (and others) are trying to protect themselves against. The warranty should be honoured in this case. If it was denied because you admitted that you had used the bike on a trainer in the past that is a huge problem and I'd challenge them to prove that it was the trainer use that caused the failure. I'd be on the safe side and not mention trainer use. I'm an honest person but I'd probably deny it if I was asked as I know it's giving them an unrealistic opportunity to deny my claim.

The reason the clause is there is if people don't secure their frame properly into the trainer. This will result in dropout damage. I see this as no different to someone not clamping their wheel properly and it causing dropout damage with on road use. In either case the warranty should not be honoured. It is user error. I think they specifically mention the trainer use though as dropout wear is much more prevalent on trainers.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:09 am 
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Have you guys seen the newest GCN workout video?

Attachment:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 90.89 KiB | Viewed 814 times ]


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:14 am 
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I think there is a big difference between the forces acting on your bike while it is fixed in a trainer and what can happen on the road, barring a head on crash of course. I'm not saying your carbon frame is going to snap in a trainer, I use one in mine, but I definitely am aware that those dropouts are fixed in a trainer and probably don't want to be pushed laterally too much, whereas on the road they are free to move with lateral motion in a lean or twist. That is, imagine the twisiting and side to side stuff that a sprinter might go through on the road. The dropouts are free to move with the wheel side to side and at all kinds of angles. I would no more want that happening in a trainer than I would want to clamp the dropouts in a bench vise then push laterally at the headtube with a lot of force. So, I think as long as your're reasonable about what you're doing on a trainer, you'll be fine.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:10 am 
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Posts: 64
Calnago wrote:
I think there is a big difference between the forces acting on your bike while it is fixed in a trainer and what can happen on the road, barring a head on crash of course. I'm not saying your carbon frame is going to snap in a trainer, I use one in mine, but I definitely am aware that those dropouts are fixed in a trainer and probably don't want to be pushed laterally too much, whereas on the road they are free to move with lateral motion in a lean or twist. That is, imagine the twisiting and side to side stuff that a sprinter might go through on the road. The dropouts are free to move with the wheel side to side and at all kinds of angles. I would no more want that happening in a trainer than I would want to clamp the dropouts in a bench vise then push laterally at the headtube with a lot of force. So, I think as long as your're reasonable about what you're doing on a trainer, you'll be fine.

You explained this much better than I did. This is exactly what happened to me. My kickr had a issue whereby when I went to my lowest gear the rear derailleur would actually hit the guard for the flywheel and I therefore could not use that gear. I then was forced to do climbs standing and this resulted in the dropouts being worn very badly. Be careful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Posts: 24
Location: Ohio
Canyon is also sponsering the Wattmeister challenge. The winner is the person who can make the most watts per kg on a home trainer. The article on Cyclingnews today about it. Winner will get an internship with Katusha-Alpecin.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Posts: 12
Those of you saying that Canyon using theie bikes in trainers for marketing should keep them from being able to deny warranty claims, think about this: How many car manufacturers use their street cars in advertising as a race cars, or hell, even sponsor/build race cars in pro racinf. Yet, their warranties specifically state that if you use the car for racing, you void the warranty. It's the same thing here: You can use the bike on the trainer, but that doesn't come without its own risks. You takes yer chances.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Posts: 153
Perhaps manufacturers can put a disclamer notice on all of these advertisements that putting a bike a trainer will void warranty so do not try this at home notice.?.?

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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:12 pm 


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