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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:46 pm 
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What seems to be the biggest performance myths when it comes to frames/ bikes of today?

What can we achieve switching from bike a to bike b?

What are the most common mistakes we buy into (ex: aero handlebars, wheels or)?

Why do we buy into trends so easily?

My questions arise since i thought of what an older lady told me once when i ordered a set of light weight wheels.
She asked me, why do you want those?
Ofcourse i answered what i was buying into.
She replied, that sounds meaningless, aren't you in this to be stronger, faster and better?
If so, is it not better riding a more heavy bike during training, as this will make it more of a training?

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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:46 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:27 pm 
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Once you reduce it all, you find it's simply the same motivator as virtually all other human behaviour - the pursuit of happiness. Only thing we all have in common.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:30 pm 
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If your training involved climbing a hill at a steady power, wouldn't it be the same effort but you would climb faster on a lighter bike? Correct me if I'm wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:44 pm 
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wheelsONfire wrote:
Why do we buy into trends so easily?


Because when it comes to sport, they are quantifiable, and sold to us as such. The thing which makes the biggest difference is fitness, as we all know, but you can't buy that (yet), so the next best thing is micro-differences packaged as gear-fetish.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Aero cable endcaps

Low friction shoe laces


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:36 pm 
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gewichtweenie wrote:
Aero cable endcaps

Low friction shoe laces



Haha.... :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:49 pm 
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wheelsONfire wrote:
What seems to be the biggest performance myths when it comes to frames/ bikes of today?

Why do we buy into trends so easily?

Imo the biggest myth is that the difference between a good and great bike makes a significant difference for 99.9% of the riders. It doesn't, you're never going to get dropped because your bike is 2kg heavier, less aero etc. In terms of specific products: ceramic bearings, aero spokes that kind of stuff.

Why do I buy into trends (easily): just cause I like most products, they're nice to work with, nice to look at, nice to use...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:44 pm 
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As mentioned above by a few posters, we buy into things because we can, and it makes us happy. Most of us are not racing professionally and looking for "marginal gains". Cycling in my opinion is a way to get really fit, but also a pretty darn good equipment hobby. I don't hate on other riders when they spend their own money on upgrade after upgrade, even if they are not that fit or not that strong. Everybody suffers in this sport at their own level. May be slower, may be for a shorter distance, but everybody suffers. Nice equipment is cool and fun to accrue. If you have the disposable income, do it!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:09 pm 
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The pursuit of happiness? I thought we are all in this to suffer.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:21 pm 
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I think the biggest myth is the aero wheel. I've seen guys swear that their $3000 Zipp wheelset makes them so much faster yet the data shows that the gain is very marginal. Zipp will show you some numbers where the biggest gains are at a high yaw angle yet the latest data is showing that we mostly encounter low yaw angles while cycling. The gains from such wheels under 5 degrees is pretty low.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:05 am 
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AJS914 wrote:
I think the biggest myth is the aero wheel. I've seen guys swear that their $3000 Zipp wheelset makes them so much faster yet the data shows that the gain is very marginal. Zipp will show you some numbers where the biggest gains are at a high yaw angle yet the latest data is showing that we mostly encounter low yaw angles while cycling. The gains from such wheels under 5 degrees is pretty low.


Yeah, plus who wants to spend every second on their bike riding into brutal headwinds coming at you diagonally from the front? If you don't, and I assume that is most people, then you are only going to be able to take advantage of this amazing aero-yaw feature every so often when you get caught in a headwind like that, and I can guarantee the last thing you are going to be thinking about it how wonderful your wheels are... you are going to be just wishing for it all to end.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:37 am 
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AJS914 wrote:
I think the biggest myth is the aero wheel. I've seen guys swear that their $3000 Zipp wheelset makes them so much faster yet the data shows that the gain is very marginal. Zipp will show you some numbers where the biggest gains are at a high yaw angle yet the latest data is showing that we mostly encounter low yaw angles while cycling. The gains from such wheels under 5 degrees is pretty low.


With my minimalistic understanding of aerodynamics (won a CO2 car race in 2004 by creating the most lightweight and aero car ) I am clearly qualified to discuss on this topic :wink: :roll:

Now not being sarcastic, the aerodynamic design of an object is based on the air velocity and density it will experience. Generally aero wheels are designed to be effective and efficient at a certain air velocity. Which that velocity may never be experienced for some riders, and the gains of course may be a minimal percentage that will only be noticed on a larger scale.

That being said, the biggest aero and light weight mod we can all make is our bodies, lose some weight and work on a more aero posture. Aero wheels and frames are big "cool" factor objects (for non-pro riders), for some it is a reason to ride more. Which would not be a mistake 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:12 am 
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wheelsONfire wrote:
What seems to be the biggest performance myths when it comes to frames/ bikes of today?


That equipment is more important than training.

wheelsONfire wrote:
What can we achieve switching from bike a to bike b?


Less money in your bank account.

wheelsONfire wrote:
What are the most common mistakes we buy into (ex: aero handlebars, wheels or)?


Anything ceramic.

wheelsONfire wrote:
Why do we buy into trends so easily?


It is easier than training hard.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:37 am 
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The better comfort i have, the less tired/ worn out i feel. So i believe in comfort.
I had a bike a few years ago, which i felt was very harsh riding. The longer i rode, the more tired i got (dah!).
But i also noted that i suffered riding on that bike and i had a much harder time to maintain speed.
No-one ever discuss micro-vibrations and what it does for our performance.
When i say comfort, i don't mean sitting upright. I mean getting better comfort allowing you to maintain (or wind up) speed without suffering from more pain than you need.
Like saddle comfort, cockpit comfort, suiting Q-factor for your feets/ legs, less vibrations.

What i do wonder, what kind of bike (or bike setup) is least affected by cross and swirl winds?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:32 am 
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TheDarkInstall wrote:
AJS914 wrote:
I think the biggest myth is the aero wheel. I've seen guys swear that their $3000 Zipp wheelset makes them so much faster yet the data shows that the gain is very marginal. Zipp will show you some numbers where the biggest gains are at a high yaw angle yet the latest data is showing that we mostly encounter low yaw angles while cycling. The gains from such wheels under 5 degrees is pretty low.


Yeah, plus who wants to spend every second on their bike riding into brutal headwinds coming at you diagonally from the front? If you don't, and I assume that is most people, then you are only going to be able to take advantage of this amazing aero-yaw feature every so often when you get caught in a headwind like that, and I can guarantee the last thing you are going to be thinking about it how wonderful your wheels are... you are going to be just wishing for it all to end.


Cycling weekly just posted a "real world" scenario test comparing two wheels.

Mavic R-Sys vs Enve 4.5 @ 200W, speed increase of 2km/h.

I think that is a lot of "free" speed. Of course they where comparing one of the worst aero wheels to one of the best.

https://youtu.be/VHsLMCTkFso

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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:32 am 


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