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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:06 pm 
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I think this list is fairly ridiculous, it is not specific enough, it's just a list of brands not bikes.
Not enough parameters, IMO: price/value changes, years change, models change, technologies change.
When a big manufacturer like Trek, for instance, is listed does this imply all models? Or all 5900's? only? Or only this year's model? Only production models, or including custom, or only custom? (I think the differences are relevant, and the basis for judgment is different.)
A huge array of models compared to some producers who make only one model?
History: Crumpton, for instance, is not even in full production yet, can that really be judged?
There are plenty of fine custom makers from all over the world who are not listed, the "list" would become a directory, then....
What's the meaning of the "best": the most exclusive? :?:
Eric, if you mean this, list the models, the reasons and your sources (personal experience/etc.) otherwise it's just a can of worms, I think.

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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:06 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:19 pm 
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cadence90 wrote:
I think this list is fairly ridiculous, it is not specific enough, it's just a list of brands not bikes.

You're right, but when you look at his list you notice that he hadn't primarily innovation and light weight in mind. :wink:
I suppose Eric means "fine bikes" in terms of craftsmanship and overall reputation of a brand.

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 Post subject: Best Bikes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:23 pm 
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What are the objective criteria for a bike manufacturer to get on this list? I suspect that, although it's fun to make such lists, the choices on the lists already posted are purely subjective.
My own subjective list would include Colnago in 1st, 2nd and 3rd places-then whatever other manufacturer anyone might care to include.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:25 pm 
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And this forum is about innovation and light weight :!: :D
Maybe it's a language issue, but even "finest" bikes as opposed to "best" is difficult to define...if the poster sets more specific parameters ("artistic" is not a real parameter IMHO, I think both Sachs and Giant are "artistic"), it might focus the discussion and allow some real experience to come into it, and not just a list of brands we could find on Damon Rinard, etc. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:27 pm 
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:oops:
You have more experience than me ...


...Principia is marked in my list :
Quote:
Aluminium:
Cannondale
Klein
Principia

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:29 pm 
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As Florian has said I take the list to mean bikes that excel in craftmenship. No offense, Trek makes a great frame, and with a lifetime warranty, its hard to beat as far as "value", but compare the craftmenship to other frames and its in another class. I compare my Kuota Khan carbon frame to a Trek carbon frame and its like night and day. Not many people walk over to a Trek and say wow that is a great looking ride, but in the 3-4 years I have had my Colnago and Pinarello, I still get this reaction from people.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Bikes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:29 pm 
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gholl wrote:
[...] the choices on the lists already posted are purely subjective.

:idea: "subjective", yes, that's the word I was searching for.

But why not a little bit subjectiveness on a site which is all about cold, objective weight figures. ;)

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Last edited by Florian on Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:36 pm 
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Even WeightWeenieness is subjective, someone posts a picture of Cat brakes, lists the weight, someone else says "yeah but they're ugly!" (and I think they're beautiful! :wink: )....that's why I love this site :!:

So, that's cool, let's set some clearer parameters though or else just make a list of the "sexiest" bikes then, because nothing is more subjective than sexy, and not simply call it the "best" :!: :up:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:44 pm
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Location: Kentucky, USA
Aluminum:

Cyfac
BMC
Storck
Orbea
Fondriest


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 Post subject: To me
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:45 pm 
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Location: Santa Monica, CA
This is; Functional, Beautiful, Artistic, and Light :D


Attachments:
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Part-Brama.jpg [ 10.93 KiB | Viewed 1145 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: To me
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:47 pm 
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Ye Olde Balde One wrote:
This is; Functional, Beautiful, Artistic, and Light :D


indeed it is a very beautiful bike, but what about this... Image
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:30 pm
Posts: 225
Ok they all make fine bikes so choose one that you like...

Ti-
Seven
Serotta
Indy Fab
Spectrum
Moots

Steel-
Richard Sachs
Pegoretti
Vanilla
Serotta
Indy Fab
T.E.T
Sycip
And the list goes on...

Al-
Cyfac
Sycip
Pegoretti

CF-
uhhh Calfee and Parley... can't think of any


Last edited by Tim the Pineapple on Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:51 pm 
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Quote:
This is; Functional, Beautiful, Artistic, and Light


I agree a good job! :up:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:54 pm 
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Posts: 225
Merlin's quality aint good like it used to be, after they got bought up, all the welders went to either indy fab, serotta or seven...

They need to bring the old XLM's back...

Oh add Fat chance (now practically indy fab).


Last edited by Tim the Pineapple on Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:54 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:56 pm 
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Tim the Pineapple wrote:
Merlin quality aint good like it used to be... even thou it looks good...

They need to bring the old XLM's back...


how so please elaborate, like i said before, i was disgusted with one of sevens custom frames - and alot of people that i know would do merlin over a seven


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