Help with eTap rear derailleur hitting the spokes (on Canyon CF SLX)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

I give up, I tried and tried..

On my Canyon CF SLX whenever I remove the chain the rear derailleur (the area of the upper pulley bolt) is hitting the spokes rather hard, sometimes even with a spoke blocking on it. Please note this happened ONLY then the chain is off.

Given there are two scenarios that this can be replicated on the road: chain falls from the inner chain ring, or chain breaking. I am obviously worried of having the rear wheel's spokes just wripped appart.

I played with the inner limit literally for hours. Whenever I reach a position when the RD doesn't hit the spikes and put the chain back on then the shifting to the largest (biggest) cog is not working. When is slightly touching, shifting is ok-ish.

The situation is the same on both wheel sets: Zipp 303 NSW, DA 9100 C40 (and was the same with the initial Zipp 202)

Is any way I could adjust the alignment of the cage plate so that the upper pulley would stop hitting the spokes in case of chain falling/braking?

I replaced the RD hanger, same issue...

Many thanks for any suggestions

mattr
Posts: 3456
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr


by Weenie


dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

mattr wrote:http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=142983&p=1281165

Thanks! Glad to see I'm not the only one, or not having a faulty RD. Unfortunately I don't see a solution...I'll take it to the LBS, maybe they can align (aka bend) the hanger, although I doubt two hangers are misaligned.

It would be so much easier if the cage would have an alignment screw.

The only time I would see this being an issue would be when climbing, smallest chainring to biggest cog and the highest tension in the chain, guess I have to maintain the heck out of that chain and replace regularly. Sure new chain every couple of months is cheaper than replacing broken spokes...

Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Contact:

by Nefarious86

When was the last time you broke a chain....
Using Tapatalk

User avatar
sugarkane
in the industry
Posts: 1800
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Location: SYD
Contact:

by sugarkane

when was the last time you bothered to read the thread some one linked in for you... :roll:

mattr
Posts: 3456
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

dorin wrote:
mattr wrote:http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=142983&p=1281165

Thanks! Glad to see I'm not the only one, or not having a faulty RD. Unfortunately I don't see a solution...I'll take it to the LBS, maybe they can align (aka bend) the hanger, although I doubt two hangers are misaligned.
It's not the hanger, it's a design limitation of the mech. There isn't a solution. Other than not snapping chains.

dorin wrote:It would be so much easier if the cage would have an alignment screw.
I don't think it would, if you "aligned" the rear mech so it didn't hit the spokes, it also wouldn't shift into the largest sprocket.
Nefarious86 wrote:When was the last time you broke a chain....
On my "best" bike, or any i actually spend time and effort maintaining, must be nearly 15 years.

On my training/hack MTB. Probably a couple of times a year, but i do almost zero maintenance, and the kit is mostly hand me down rubbish.............

dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

sugarkane wrote:when was the last time you bothered to read the thread some one linked in for you... :roll:

Srlsy?! What makes yuh think I didn't read it? Several people said have the same issue, yet there was no final solution being given other than potentially aligning the hanger which I mentions as I read that thread. Don't be so quick with throwing stones

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5647
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I don't have experience with eTap yet, but after reading through this thread and the linked thread, I really do find it hard to believe that SRAM knowingly accepts this as part of their design. Crap happens, be it a broken chain or, far more common, simply a dropped chain (SRAM better than anyone should know that). That is a very reasonable and foreseeable scenario that I think a manufacturer could easily be held accountable for in the event something really bad happened as a result of the spokes getting torn out resulting in a horrendous crash. Part of any good system design is trying to foresee the scenarios that might happen and ensuring there's a failsafe in place in case it does. Of course, it's impossible to account for every scenario that might occur, but a chain drop....??? Would it do that on most wheels or do they at least give some warning or caveat saying "may not be compatible with certain wheels so check this first blah blah"? This one is curious to me but thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to watch for it when the time comes.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

JLS
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:36 pm

by JLS

Same issue here its just when there is no tension without chain installed runs fine with chain no clash with spokes.

dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

Calnago wrote:I don't have experience with eTap yet, but after reading through this thread and the linked thread, I really do find it hard to believe that SRAM knowingly accepts this as part of their design. Crap happens, be it a broken chain or, far more common, simply a dropped chain (SRAM better than anyone should know that). That is a very reasonable and foreseeable scenario that I think a manufacturer could easily be held accountable for in the event something really bad happened as a result of the spokes getting torn out resulting in a horrendous crash. Part of any good system design is trying to foresee the scenarios that might happen and ensuring there's a failsafe in place in case it does. Of course, it's impossible to account for every scenario that might occur, but a chain drop....??? Would it do that on most wheels or do they at least give some warning or caveat saying "may not be compatible with certain wheels so check this first blah blah"? This one is curious to me but thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to watch for it when the time comes.

Ironically: eTap, with SRAM Casette and Zipp NSW...all the newest equipment of the same company.
I love the way it shifts and the wheels, but as you said a chain drop can always happen.

I wrote them, and the official answer was if the chain snaps broken spokes will be the last of my issues...

mattr
Posts: 3456
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Sounds like another reason to avoid SRAM with a response like that. FFS.

dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

mattr wrote:Sounds like another reason to avoid SRAM with a response like that. FFS.

Maybe I can fix it with a differently aligned hanger...look, worst case scenario this is what the insurance is for. As much as I contemplate to go to di2 (the functionality of the buttons on top of the shifters is aweosome) the shifting of eTap is just genius and is annoying going back. Like when you get your first Apple computer you wonder why you used windows for so long...

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5647
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

dorin wrote:
Calnago wrote:I don't have experience with eTap yet, but after reading through this thread and the linked thread, I really do find it hard to believe that SRAM knowingly accepts this as part of their design. Crap happens, be it a broken chain or, far more common, simply a dropped chain (SRAM better than anyone should know that). That is a very reasonable and foreseeable scenario that I think a manufacturer could easily be held accountable for in the event something really bad happened as a result of the spokes getting torn out resulting in a horrendous crash. Part of any good system design is trying to foresee the scenarios that might happen and ensuring there's a failsafe in place in case it does. Of course, it's impossible to account for every scenario that might occur, but a chain drop....??? Would it do that on most wheels or do they at least give some warning or caveat saying "may not be compatible with certain wheels so check this first blah blah"? This one is curious to me but thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to watch for it when the time comes.

Ironically: eTap, with SRAM Casette and Zipp NSW...all the newest equipment of the same company.
I love the way it shifts and the wheels, but as you said a chain drop can always happen.

I wrote them, and the official answer was if the chain snaps broken spokes will be the last of my issues...

Seriously, they actually said that? Well, with them being a US Company, and knowing a little bit about how product liability cases are handled here... good luck to them when they find themselves in court due to someone ending up brain dead after crashing because of it. So, yes, it may be the "least" of your issues (I'm assuming they said "least" and not "last" in their response but doesn't matter either way at that point).... but it could be a VERY big issue for SRAM if and when something like that happens. If McDonalads can be held liable for making their coffee too hot, then SRAM doesn't stand a chance on this one.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

Calnago wrote:
dorin wrote:
Calnago wrote:I don't have experience with eTap yet, but after reading through this thread and the linked thread, I really do find it hard to believe that SRAM knowingly accepts this as part of their design. Crap happens, be it a broken chain or, far more common, simply a dropped chain (SRAM better than anyone should know that). That is a very reasonable and foreseeable scenario that I think a manufacturer could easily be held accountable for in the event something really bad happened as a result of the spokes getting torn out resulting in a horrendous crash. Part of any good system design is trying to foresee the scenarios that might happen and ensuring there's a failsafe in place in case it does. Of course, it's impossible to account for every scenario that might occur, but a chain drop....??? Would it do that on most wheels or do they at least give some warning or caveat saying "may not be compatible with certain wheels so check this first blah blah"? This one is curious to me but thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to watch for it when the time comes.

Ironically: eTap, with SRAM Casette and Zipp NSW...all the newest equipment of the same company.
I love the way it shifts and the wheels, but as you said a chain drop can always happen.

I wrote them, and the official answer was if the chain snaps broken spokes will be the last of my issues...

Seriously, they actually said that? Well, with them being a US Company, and knowing a little bit about how product liability cases are handled here... good luck to them when they find themselves in court due to someone ending up brain dead after crashing because of it. So, yes, it may be the "least" of your issues (I'm assuming they said "least" and not "last" in their response but doesn't matter either way at that point).... but it could be a VERY big issue for SRAM if and when something like that happens. If McDonalads can be held liable for making their coffee too hot, then SRAM doesn't stand a chance on this one.

Can't post a print screen with the phone but here is the answer, apparently the damage can be far worst
than a couple of shredded spokes

"Hi Dorin,

There is no way to have the derailleur adjusted in this manner, as the chain is designed to tension the cage away from the spokes in this high position. We understand that you are trying to eliminate a possible scenario to protect your wheel in case of chain breakage- however, it should be understood that if a chain breaks, the derailleur tension into your spokes in high position is not likely the most serious of issues to consider. When a chain breaks, it's likely that it will not simply fall gracefully away... the primary way a chain breaks is by force in a jam. It is more likely that the high tension of pedal forcing a chain during binding will most probably jam the chain into your derailleur, spinning it up and around your seat stay (if not first breaking the derailleur hangar) and/or or the slack in the chain will get caught wrapped around the cassette, possibly damaging spokes or interior of dropout depending on how the chain becomes wrapped.

Note that these scenarios are both catastrophic, are likely due to extreme mal-adjustment, and are extremely rare. Be sure to never force pedal through any chain jam, on any drivetrain system.

Regards,
SRAM USA
http://www.sram.com

Service and Technical Documents:
http://www.sram.com/service

Learn more about The Power of Bicycles: http://www.worldbicyclerelief.org"
Last edited by dorin on Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


User avatar
Frankie - B
Administrator
Posts: 6591
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:17 am
Location: Drenthe, Holland

by Frankie - B

Americans and their liability laws....

It stikes me as odd that a person can not be held responsible for his or her own actions.

Sorry, I can not help you with that derailleur my friend.
'Tape was made to wrap your GF's gifts, NOT hold a freakin tire on.'

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post