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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Calnago, I'm inclined to believe Shimano's claim of 21.348792% more braking power with 9100. Phenomenal brakes. They modulate as Campy (no chance of going over the bars in a panic stop...80% of my braking is front only) with more stopping power. A few hours ago I was on a technical descent which normally leaves my hands numb with fatigue. On a good day I can handle most descents with almost no braking, but this particular descent is treacherous (urban, 10-15%). So, had to ride the brakes about 50% of the way down yet felt as if I was hardly pressing the levers (disc like modulation). I guess those extra 20 grams paid off.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:39 pm 
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@Beatnik: I didn't know Shimano was claiming that. Sheer stopping power aside, I think good modulation with rim brakes arises out of three things:
1) Good solid brake calipers that operate silky smooth.
2) Equally smooth cable runs from caliper to levers (which also operate smoothly), with as few bends as possible and the bends that are necessary, nice arcs so as not to create any unnecessary friction, and
3) Really true rims, so that no pulsating occurs from high or low spots.

Get all three of those right, and you have great brakes.

So yes, from a performance standpoint I don't see a big advantage going to direct mount brakes. But still wondering about clearance for those that do want to run fat tires on their road bikes without having to go to discs.

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Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:39 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:14 am 
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@cal...... one of the benefits of direct mount, albeit a small benefit, is that it will be harder to knock the brake out of right/left balance(not sure what the correct term is) e.g. When inserting or removing a wheel it is quite easy to knock a caliper out of alignment.

Must also be better to have the load spread through twice as many attachment points in the frame....


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:34 am 
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@corky... in all my years cycling I have never knocked a brake caliper out of alignment from removing or inserting a wheel. What brakes are you using where that is an issue? Are they mounted tight enough? Is the brake nut the right length?
The high end standard mount calipers are so strong and well designed that I don't think direct mounting at two points makes them better performers.
Direct mounts were originally a response to the dumbest idea in brake placement in history... underneath and behind the bottom bracket. Another dumb aero idea gone bad. Now that they've realized the error of their ways they are sticking them on the seat stays and claiming they are aero because they're more in line and behind the seat stays. Like Beatnik is saying, the new 9100 standard mounts are pretty darn good and provide clearance for up to 28mm tires. They even have a little drilled out plate between the two sides to make the calipers rock solid. Reminds me of the U shaped pieces of metal that used to mount on the cantilever bosses of mountain bikes to prevent the forks from splaying out due to pressure from the brakes.
But still, if ultimate tire clearance is the goal here, then disc brakes are the way to go for sure. Question remains, do you really want to be running 30mm tires on your road bike. I don't.

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Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Cal..... brakes used are Campag record done it loads of times...clumsy me....but also have found them out of whack on other occasions..... suspected Cable tension, tried adjusting them blah blah....anyway my musing on direct mount staying aligned are just an idea....I have no experience.

Yeah I was aware that they were borne out of chainstay location and yeah....dumb idea.

INterestingly I note the new Derosa Protos has direct mount in the traditional location but the King XS is chainstay mounted, guessing a slightly older design? Anyway I think these Italian mfgers all seem to follow each other in this sort of thing......


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:12 am 
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I recommend using another tire.(ex. veloflex, vittoria)
Compared to other product, conti rite grows larger.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:11 am 
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Can anyone confirm if the 2017 C60's have improved tyre clearance over previous years? I've extensively checked the web but cannot find any confirmation. My local dealer has asked for information from the importer but hasn't received any feedback (as yet).

Looking to purchase a 60S PLRD. I am at the larger end of the weight scale approx 100kg, so appreciate a wider rim/tyre combo. I do have several wheelsets (Flo30's - excellent, Reynolds Assault SLG (2015) - good but prefer the Flo's, and I've just built up some LB RR46C02 rims on DT350 straight pull) and I am concerned that the previously reported clearance will limit my wheel/tyre choice. I generally run 23mm Conti GP4000SII's on my Flo's and will do the same on the LB rims (similar internal width), but like the option of running 25mm 4KSII's if I am taking on a rougher road challenge.

My existing bike is a Canyon CF SLX 2014 XL, but I am already on my 4th frame, and just about to put a warranty claim in for this one (all the same failure point). Fed up losing my bike for months whilst the warranty is processed (only had my bike for 2 months during last years summer), so going to bite the bullet with another frameset. (Don't interpret my comments incorrectly. I absolutely love the Canyon when I can ride it!)

Any feedback on clearance for the 2017 models would be appreciated. (Any yes I have done an extensive search on WW and the WWW!, but nothing conclusive found).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:23 am 
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^if they "improved" the clearance for 2017 they should add suspension to the fork and call it a mountain bike

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:03 am 
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benp wrote:
My existing bike is a Canyon CF SLX 2014 XL, but I am already on my 4th frame, and just about to put a warranty claim in for this one (all the same failure point).


Definitely a Colnago C60 would be much sturdier. There is a reason it weights 1200gr...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:32 am 
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kgt wrote:
benp wrote:
My existing bike is a Canyon CF SLX 2014 XL, but I am already on my 4th frame, and just about to put a warranty claim in for this one (all the same failure point).


Definitely a Colnago C60 would be much sturdier. There is a reason it weights 1200gr...


1205 gm in Art Decor 50S, with Headset installed, seatpost clamp and cups for Ultra Torque cups. If u compare like others do, and show the weight without headset (i guess at least 65-70 gm), Ultra Torque Cups (30 gm?), and seatpost clamp, the weight will be less then 1100 gm. If u show the weigh as Pinarello do (without paint), seem that C60 is lightweight frame, and without compromise in term of realibility or riding caracteristics just to save some non important weight :)

Image


And about the tire clearance. I have 2016 year model, and i was riding whole season, including winter time where there was a wet roads with small stones etc..

When i bought the frame i was riding Attack/Force tires (22/24), then switched to Vittoria Corsa G+ 25mm (which look much wider), then to Conti 4Season 25mm for winter time. When i was cleaning the frame, noticed the scratches under the rear stay (probably tire picked up some stones and produce this scratches). Nothing too serious, just cosmetic.

But if i buy again C60, i'll just put trasnaparent Lizard Skin on this part (i have now, after i realize that scratches), or probably i'll be carefull with Vittoria Corsa G+ tires in 25 mm, which are much wider (and heavier), compared to Conti 4Season or Vittorica Corsa G+ 25 mm in tubular version.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:36 am 
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
corky wrote:
@cal...... one of the benefits of direct mount, albeit a small benefit, is that it will be harder to knock the brake out of right/left balance(not sure what the correct term is) e.g. When inserting or removing a wheel it is quite easy to knock a caliper out of alignment.

Must also be better to have the load spread through twice as many attachment points in the frame....


On my next "super bike" I will have direct mount brakes. There's a couple of advatages.

1) Stiffer.
2) The will never move out of right/left balance. Not that it is a major problem. But caliper does move sometimes.
3) Better tyre clearance!


Last edited by PSM on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:39 am 
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:14 am 
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kgt wrote:
benp wrote:
My existing bike is a Canyon CF SLX 2014 XL, but I am already on my 4th frame, and just about to put a warranty claim in for this one (all the same failure point).


Definitely a Colnago C60 would be much sturdier. There is a reason it weights 1200gr...


Sturdier is good for me. More bike time = less body weight (what I gain on the bike I could loose off my belly without noticing)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:45 pm 
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I've just gone Pro 4 23's to 25's and have no issues on my 50s. Regarding that C60 direct mount, its interesting because the UAE team bike that GCN presented didnt have such a feature.

Btw, 3pio, nice frame.... want to see that built up...

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