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 Post subject: Motor doping
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Motor doping
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:25 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:13 am 
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OLD

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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:16 am 
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evan326 wrote:
OLD


Doesn't seem to be much new info except

Quote:
These people told Jean-Pierre Verdy that about 12 racers used motors in the 2015 Tour de France


So nine Sky riders with motors + three A.N. Others................


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:18 am 
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Old news but sure does not put the sport in a good eye.


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:19 am 
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Didn't the UCI do a lot of checks at that Tour?


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:24 am 
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Who on here thinks that motor doping has not contributed to GT or Classics wins?


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Has anyone ever demonstrated the electro-magnetic wheel? So far, I've only seen descriptions and wheels with cuts out showing where the batteries and magnets would go.

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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:46 am 
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AJS914 wrote:
Has anyone ever demonstrated the electro-magnetic wheel? So far, I've only seen descriptions and wheels with cuts out showing where the batteries and magnets would go.


No, the Hungarian `expert' (rent a quote?) showed a carbon fibre rimmed wheel complete with cut-outs, all based on an illustration that appeared in an article in the press, but couldn't show how such a thing would work. Likewise no one's produced a working example of the hub motor shown in the other illustration in the same article. Both illustrations appeared to be based on fanstasy rather than fact. The Hungarian's claims have varied widely from article to article.


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:00 am 
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Hawkwood wrote:
No, the Hungarian `expert' (rent a quote?) showed a carbon fibre rimmed wheel complete with cut-outs, all based on an illustration that appeared in an article in the press, but couldn't show how such a thing would work.
It wouldn't. The clearances and tolerances between wheel and rim are far too large and badly controlled to make such a thing work in any realistic way (losses would be massive, ~50% or more over the normal levels).

If you could guarantee the clearances and tolerances, one tiny piece of grit, or slight buckle in the rim would pretty much lock the back end of the bike up almost instantly. Clearances that'd allow it to actually be used as a bike would probably stop the motor from working.......

The hub motor is a possibility (from the motor perspective, certainly, power may be more problematic) there are plenty of brushless outrunners around.

I could probably make one myself, given access to adequate machinery and something to modify.


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:24 pm 
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been reading pieces on the vivax assist on bicycling.com and various facebook posts. see phrases like hidden and silent. While the marketers claim this is not about cheating and what's it about are older riders who want to do the alps or spouses that want to keep up with their partners, the marketing suggests otherwise. we're about to see a deluge of recreational cyclists on hidden motors trying to be at the front of their group rides or get KOM on a strava segment. The only thing getting in the way is the high price of the required Parlee Z0 or Seven bike, but its only a matter of time till Trek, Giant , Specialized , Canyon or even Bikes Direct getting into the act.

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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:38 pm 
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For me it's about whether it is clear a motor is present or not. If it's one of those hybrid electric bikes where (for instance) I can see a huge battery, then I don't mind it at all. I also wouldn't mind if it's a road bike that's clearly marked. I think the problem occurs when a normal looking road bike overtakes and I somehow know that it's electric (e.g. I'm told later by the guy himself). It's not about me having a big ego and can't stand people overtaking (I'm too used to that), but it's the deceptive nature of it that bothers me, the feeling that the other cyclist is deliberately out to cheat others. If you say, "So why do you care?" I would agree it doesn't mean anything at the end of the day, but I'll still be bothered by it somewhat. And I would think less of any bike company that goes this route, it's like... encouraging criminal behavior LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:09 pm 
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The problem is that it will be sold as a 'fully integrated' solution.

Far nicer to have a normal looking road bike, with fully hidden battery and motor. Less bulk, more aero, etc.

Because you don't need 300W of help, it only has to be 50 to 100 to make a big difference, and only for short times. So the battery and motor can be quite small.

I'm convinced there were riders at last year's Etape du Tour on such 'hidden' electric bikes, and I'm sure there'll be a % more this year. As you age into your 40's, 50's and start to fall off the pace, it is just too tempting for some, and you risk nothing......

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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:50 pm 
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cyclespeed wrote:
The problem is that it will be sold as a 'fully integrated' solution.

Far nicer to have a normal looking road bike, with fully hidden battery and motor. Less bulk, more aero, etc.

Because you don't need 300W of help, it only has to be 50 to 100 to make a big difference, and only for short times. So the battery and motor can be quite small.

I'm convinced there were riders at last year's Etape du Tour on such 'hidden' electric bikes, and I'm sure there'll be a % more this year. As you age into your 40's, 50's and start to fall off the pace, it is just too tempting for some, and you risk nothing......


I'll be doing vaujany oisans come june. i'm 52. i'd rather complete it at my own slow pace than cheat with one of these things, but i do resent those that do. the sad thing is i only got serious a few years ago and while i'm still getting better, i lost out on my best years.

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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:50 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Motor doping
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:27 pm
Posts: 244
mattr wrote:
Hawkwood wrote:
No, the Hungarian `expert' (rent a quote?) showed a carbon fibre rimmed wheel complete with cut-outs, all based on an illustration that appeared in an article in the press, but couldn't show how such a thing would work.
It wouldn't. The clearances and tolerances between wheel and rim are far too large and badly controlled to make such a thing work in any realistic way (losses would be massive, ~50% or more over the normal levels).

If you could guarantee the clearances and tolerances, one tiny piece of grit, or slight buckle in the rim would pretty much lock the back end of the bike up almost instantly. Clearances that'd allow it to actually be used as a bike would probably stop the motor from working.......

The hub motor is a possibility (from the motor perspective, certainly, power may be more problematic) there are plenty of brushless outrunners around.

I could probably make one myself, given access to adequate machinery and something to modify.


I think what's happened is that the orginal newspaper report (Italian?) had illustrations of a hub and a wheel motor clearly created by someone who didn't have a clue how such things might work. Then the media expected the Hungarian to produce motorised components that looked like the illustrations, hence the wheel he created with loads of slots in it for the batteries.


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