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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:17 pm 
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fa63 wrote:
Saw your entry; is your reach really 62.2 cm from tip of saddle to center of handlebar? Just confirming; if true, you are quite the outlier :)


Corrected!

One thing I noticed is that my inseam is a bit long compared to others (I don't have long legs by any means).

I wonder if everyone is measuring it the same way. My understanding is that you should jam it right up there to get an accurate inseam measurement.


Last edited by sanrensho on Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:17 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:00 am 
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To be honest, I am not sure. I hope everyone is measuring and reporting their cycling inseam and not pants inseam :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:21 am 
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fa63 wrote:
To be honest, I am not sure. I hope everyone is measuring and reporting their cycling inseam and not pants inseam :)


Perhaps add a note to the spreadsheet? There's a big difference between jammed up crotch and grazing the balls. Ahem.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:05 pm 
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I will add a note.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:31 am 
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sanrensho wrote:
fa63 wrote:
To be honest, I am not sure. I hope everyone is measuring and reporting their cycling inseam and not pants inseam :)


Perhaps add a note to the spreadsheet? There's a big difference between jammed up crotch and grazing the balls. Ahem.


I've been a fitter for quite a few years qualified by Trek, Guru and Retul.
Always jam it up there! When you sit on the bike the saddle is jammed right up there.
I've done hundreds of fits including a couple of professionals but I wouldn't call myself an expert and I'm always learning from people I fit.
For what it's worth I've found the Guru system working with the client gets the best results.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:28 am 
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Here is a quick chart summarizing the findings so far:

Image

On average the saddle height is virtually the same across the spectrum, but the pros reach a little bit (1-2 cm) longer...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:36 pm 
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This is interesting and the chart above fits with what I'v always felt worked for me. I'm 1.68 M and have a 72 cm inside leg which using the Lemond 0.883 method give me a saddle height of 67.1 cm which is pretty much what I use depending on the flex of my saddle. Currently set to 67.3 cm using a Selle Italia SLR. Distance from saddle nose to bar centre is 53 cm. My position (so I've been told) looks quite long and low but I've always been comfortable, ride 8-10K miles per year (mixture of racing/sportives/club rides/chain gangs) and have done for the last 20 years. Never had back pain or knee pain, hamstrings and glutes are stiff but have never caused a problem. I do some gym work too so my core is reasonable. Shoulders sometimes feel a bit uncomfortable (not painful) in as much as my bars have always felt too high, so I can sometimes drop my head and hunch my shoulders.

Recently had a bike fit for no reason other than wondering if I could increase my performance. I made it clear that my sole objective was performance and I have never had any real discomfort on the bike. I'd also got a new bike and to my mind I felt I needed a -17 stem because the bars felt a bit too high and my new bike was slower than my old bike which had a 10 mm lower front.

Fitter moved my saddle forward by 15 mm putting my knee 15 mm in front of the pedal axle (I know that's not written in stone but I'd set mine up as knee protrusion over pedal axle), raised the bars by 5 mm and said ideally he'd go up another 5 mm but I had no space; and then swapped my stem for a 9 cm (from an 11 cm) reducing my reach to 50 cm and in that position I could clearly see the whole of the front hub in front of the handlebars (I always set my bike up so that the bars obscured the front hub in your normal position. He also said I should be on shorter cranks than my 170's because of my short legs. I've always ridden 170's because they are the shortest Campy do and have never had issues.

I was reluctant to try it but decided to. Went for a longish ride and it felt quite unpleasant. I got pains in my ITB and hamstring tendon on the outside of the knee and even some anterior knee pain. as soon as there was a headwind I was terribly hunching my shoulders to tuck my head down beneath the wind because simply bending my elbows seemed to be too uncomfortable and give me pain in the front of my shoulder due to the decreased torso/upper arm angle. They when I got out of the saddle I was hitting my knee on the top of the bars (I tend to ride quite pointy toes) and also felt very unstable.

When I fed back he said the position was correct and I just need to adapt and give it time? Any thoughts? I'm probably going to get a second opinion but wondering what other peoples experiences with bike fits have been? My feeling so far is I'm to old (41) to radically change my position and also after my years of riding my body has adapted to a certain way of riding. I know I pedal hard rather than fast, my average cadence is usually in the high 80s rather than 90s and that's probably down to the relatively long cranks and the setback. I am quite muscular and strong in the legs so I'm sure my legs have adapted. I like to ride out of the saddle a lot and am quite comfortable spending 30-50% of a climb standing and this (unlike many larger riders I ride with) does not have a negative effect on my heart rate, I am just more comfortable.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:32 pm 
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I have had three professional bike fits in my life. Here are the results:

Fit 1 - Specialized Body Geometry
Saddle height = 76.5 cm
Saddle setback = 7.5 cm
Saddle tip to handlebar reach = 55 cm
Saddle to handlebar drop = 7.5 cm

Fit 2 - Local bike shop fitter (Trek trained)
Saddle height = 76 cm
Saddle setback = 10.5 cm
Saddle tip to handlebar reach = 57.8 cm
Saddle to handlebar drop = 5 cm

Fit 3 - Wobble Naught
Saddle height = 77.8 cm
Saddle setback = 10 cm
Saddle tip to handlebar reach = 57.5 cm
Saddle to handlebar drop = 7 cm

Currently, I happily ride with a saddle height of 77 cm, a setback of 8 cm, reach of 56 cm and drop of 5 cm. So I ended up being somewhere in the middle of them all. Also, I found out that if a position wasn't comfortable right away, it didn't really become more comfortable over time. Your experience may vary though.

Conclusion: professional bike fits (or trends shown like in the chart I made) can get you in the ballpark, but in the end it is up to the rider to decide what works for them.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:46 pm 
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cmcdonnell wrote:
I was reluctant to try it but decided to. Went for a longish ride and it felt quite unpleasant. I got pains in my ITB and hamstring tendon on the outside of the knee and even some anterior knee pain. as soon as there was a headwind I was terribly hunching my shoulders to tuck my head down beneath the wind because simply bending my elbows seemed to be too uncomfortable and give me pain in the front of my shoulder due to the decreased torso/upper arm angle. They when I got out of the saddle I was hitting my knee on the top of the bars (I tend to ride quite pointy toes) and also felt very unstable.


If it feels unpleasant and you don't notice any performance (power) improvements, then why keep the changes? I assume you've done a few rides on the new setup.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:14 am 
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I just checked my actual measurements against your data charts. My reach is about 1 cm shorter than your chart. But my saddle height, saddle setback, and handlebar drop are spot on.
I agree that most professional bike fits should get you into a general "fit window" depending on what your goals are (aero, power, and/or comfort).
My fit was Body Geometry.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:33 am 
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I'm waiting to get a follow-up visit but after (depending on what happens) I'm probably going to book a BG fit to see how that goes. I've checked my other bikes and both have a 67cm saddle and one has a 53.5 reach and the other 52. Not sure how to measure saddle setback or handlebar drop accurately? but both saddles are close to the max set back they can go and bars are slammed on one bike and a 5mm spacer on the other.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Posts: 338
If there weren't any problems with the original fit, I wouldn't recommend wasting more time and money on various fitters. However, if you really want to give one a shot, you should be very careful and very slow with giving your body time to adapt to the new position. Like, decrease the mileage to 30-50% of what you would normally do, give it a couple of weeks at least before you slowly start increasing, and don't increase by more than 10% from week to week. Otherwise, I'd be worried about developing repetitive stress and overuse injuries where you previously had none.

If I were you, I'd go back to my original fit and keep adjusting by feel from there. That's pretty much what I did after my one try at professional fitting.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:16 pm 
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I'll get around to doing it properly, but according to your graph, i'm dead on typical seat height, and midway between the 2 for reach at my height.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Interesting... I'm dead on normal for saddle, but a bit under for reach.. which sort of makes sense.. having a weak core and little arms.. a bit like a pink t-rex raoar!

Out of curiosity is there anywhere which lists saddle 'depths' e.g. the height of saddle rails to the sit bone position?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Posts: 224
Location: Wilmington, DE
cmcdonnell wrote:
Not sure how to measure saddle setback or handlebar drop accurately?


Saddle setback is a very awkward measurement to take. I propped up my bike and used a 48" (1.2m) level standing vertical and aligned with the center of the bottom bracket. Then I measured as suggested, from the tip of the saddle to the level's edge. I'd guess I'm within 5mm of actual setback using that method.

For handlebar drop, measure saddle height from the floor and then handlebar height from the floor. Subtract the latter from the former.

At some point, I want to take photographs of my bikes using a long (200mm+) lens for a flat projection and then bring those images into Solidworks. I can then scale the images to a known reference measurement (like the distance from tire edge to tire edge) and be able to pull accurate measurements of all other geometry. I've used this method to reverse engineer awkward parts with very good results. A CMM would be nice but not in the budget.


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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:46 pm 


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