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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:55 am
Posts: 27
Hi everyone, I am currently on a 2006 Look 595 Which i am happy riding with. But the bike is already more than 10 years old and i am thinking if it is comparable with the bikes from latest 2016/2017. Should i purchase a new bike as it is far more superior and better than the look 595? Need all the opinions from you guy on whether is the newer bikes better? ( In terms of Aerodynamic/Comfort level/Weight and compliance level.

Thanks in advance for all the replies :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:33 am
Posts: 99
Location: Prescott, AZ
A 2016 bike will only be marginally superior to the same spec level bike of 10 years ago. Even the high end stuff from the mid to late 90's is still plenty adequate for racing at an amateur to intermediate level.

All the things you listed as far as aero, comfort, weight, etc... is indeed a little better on the newer stuff.. But the difference is probably smaller than you think, and you can still spend your money more wisely. There are other things which matter alot more, such as a professional fitting, power meter, proper diet, coach, etc... If you haven't got those in check already, do that before you buy a new bike IMO.

Going fast on a bike is mostly about fitness. Anything under 20lbs with light weight stiff alloy frame, a wheelset under 1800g, good racing specific tires, and 105 level group is plenty to be competitive in local races and spirited club rides.

However, if you have a hole burning in your pocket or are really serious about going as fast as possible, a better newer bike will indeed make a small improvement in your times within single digit percentage level.

As far as comfort, I find even old alloy frames to be very comfy with the right wheelset, tires, tire pressure, and seatpost... And if you want aero, get yourself an aero helmet, have a tailor alter your clothing, and dial in a comfy yet aggressive fit. Those things matter alot more than an aero frame.

If your more of just a casual recreational rider, now is a great time to buy. You can certainly buy a newer bike and experience a more pleasurable ride. Ergonomics are better nowadays, you get a brand new crisp running drivetrain, lots more bike and component diversity and choices, etc.... It will certainly motivate you to get out the door and hammer it, which is a good thing for sure! Just dont expect to go much faster than your old bike...

Much of the modern features and innovations seem to be centered around comfort, and much more choices in things like geometry, tire widths, rim vs. disk brakes, aero vs. light frames, electronic shifting vs. mechanical, tubeless tires, wider gearing, etc... The choices are really endless nowadays and you can really get a purpose built bike made just for you vs. the 1990s when bikes were still lightning fast but with no choices. All horizontal top tube, straight block cassettes, standard chainrings, only 2 brands of power meters, traditional round tube frame shapes, no disk brakes, no tubeless, etc...


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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:20 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:42 pm
Posts: 11
Look595 wrote:
Hi everyone, I am currently on a 2006 Look 595 Which i am happy riding with. But the bike is already more than 10 years old and i am thinking if it is comparable with the bikes from latest 2016/2017. Should i purchase a new bike as it is far more superior and better than the look 595? Need all the opinions from you guy on whether is the newer bikes better? ( In terms of Aerodynamic/Comfort level/Weight and compliance level.

Thanks in advance for all the replies :)


I am lucky enough to ride both a 2007 look 595 and a 2016 canyon Aeroad. Both are amazing bikes, but I honestly prefer the look. It just feels better. It's not as fast as the Aeroad probably, and not as stiff, but it is just a dreamy magic carpet ride and handles incredibly well.

Save your money and enjoy your look some more.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:12 pm
Posts: 136
manufacturers tell me every year their frames are xx% stiffer across the board, so after 10 years yours is practically rubber.

you'll save approx ~300g on a new frame

you'll probably get much better shifting and braking performance with a current groupset. and if you ran 2006 shimano, it had those ugly side cable routing. i would look to upgrade the drivetrain.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 49
As a rider of a Colnago C50, I enjoy having a bike that stands out in the crowd - I would invest around the bike, as others have suggested.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:55 am
Posts: 27
eyedrop wrote:
A 2016 bike will only be marginally superior to the same spec level bike of 10 years ago. Even the high end stuff from the mid to late 90's is still plenty adequate for racing at an amateur to intermediate level.

All the things you listed as far as aero, comfort, weight, etc... is indeed a little better on the newer stuff.. But the difference is probably smaller than you think, and you can still spend your money more wisely. There are other things which matter alot more, such as a professional fitting, power meter, proper diet, coach, etc... If you haven't got those in check already, do that before you buy a new bike IMO.

Going fast on a bike is mostly about fitness. Anything under 20lbs with light weight stiff alloy frame, a wheelset under 1800g, good racing specific tires, and 105 level group is plenty to be competitive in local races and spirited club rides.

However, if you have a hole burning in your pocket or are really serious about going as fast as possible, a better newer bike will indeed make a small improvement in your times within single digit percentage level.

As far as comfort, I find even old alloy frames to be very comfy with the right wheelset, tires, tire pressure, and seatpost... And if you want aero, get yourself an aero helmet, have a tailor alter your clothing, and dial in a comfy yet aggressive fit. Those things matter alot more than an aero frame.

If your more of just a casual recreational rider, now is a great time to buy. You can certainly buy a newer bike and experience a more pleasurable ride. Ergonomics are better nowadays, you get a brand new crisp running drivetrain, lots more bike and component diversity and choices, etc.... It will certainly motivate you to get out the door and hammer it, which is a good thing for sure! Just dont expect to go much faster than your old bike...

Much of the modern features and innovations seem to be centered around comfort, and much more choices in things like geometry, tire widths, rim vs. disk brakes, aero vs. light frames, electronic shifting vs. mechanical, tubeless tires, wider gearing, etc... The choices are really endless nowadays and you can really get a purpose built bike made just for you vs. the 1990s when bikes were still lightning fast but with no choices. All horizontal top tube, straight block cassettes, standard chainrings, only 2 brands of power meters, traditional round tube frame shapes, no disk brakes, no tubeless, etc...


Sorry to bring up this old thread once again but i have a new situation to ask about. I tested some aero frames(Pina F8/Madone 9/Aeroad 2016) and found the bike to be slightly faster than the old look 595, maybe around 1-2km/hr at most with the same effort. sometimes it just make me wonder to think about let´s say i am riding with a fast group and i am just lacking slightly behind with them with my look 595, and getting the newer aero frame will increase the overall speed slightly as it is faster by a bit. in this case i will be able to catch up with the fast group. OR what else can i do if i were to stay with the look 595 to increase the speed and ride with along the fast group riders. My fitness/diet/bike fit and bike set-up is already at the optimized stage but not sure whether is it really the bike that is making the slight differences here between me getting slightly lacking behind or be able to ride along with the fast riders, the average speed we are going at for fast group is about 38-40km/hr


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 1053
Look595 wrote:
Sorry to bring up this old thread once again but i have a new situation to ask about. I tested some aero frames(Pina F8/Madone 9/Aeroad 2016) and found the bike to be slightly faster than the old look 595, maybe around 1-2km/hr at most with the same effort. sometimes it just make me wonder to think about let´s say i am riding with a fast group and i am just lacking slightly behind with them with my look 595, and getting the newer aero frame will increase the overall speed slightly as it is faster by a bit. in this case i will be able to catch up with the fast group. OR what else can i do if i were to stay with the look 595 to increase the speed and ride with along the fast group riders. My fitness/diet/bike fit and bike set-up is already at the optimized stage but not sure whether is it really the bike that is making the slight differences here between me getting slightly lacking behind or be able to ride along with the fast riders, the average speed we are going at for fast group is about 38-40km/hr


You may ride faster when alone with a new aero frame compared to your Look 595 --- but in a group (except when you are in the front) you will not be faster with it compared to your Look.

If you are "just lacking slightly behind with them" during your ride then make some strong effort to close the gap with the group and then stay within the group.

BTW, I am sure you can optimize something about your fitness (increase of your FTP for example), about your weight/ body fat for example (FTP per kg) or about your position on the bike etc....


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 8
OP are you fighting boredom after 10 years on the same bike? I suspect many of us have been there.

If so then there may be nothing else except a new frame to satisfy you.
If not then you could try the opposite logic of having another worse bike which reminds you how good the 595 is when you ride it. By worse I don't mean a hack but maybe a good but slower winter bike, for example I would love to add a Whyte Dorset for winter riding with wider tyres and full mudguards.

I got bored with my steel Roberts and after about 15 years neglected it through a phase of riding carbon bikes. When I rebuilt the Roberts I appreciated it all over again and have just renewed it with respray, new wheels and DA9000 groupset. The frame is 22 years old now. My ride times are similar on all my bikes and a couple of mates have ridden each bike faster than I can proving as usual that it's mostly about the rider.

If you're simply trying to optimise the 595 then ignore me and follow the good advice posted by others.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:55 am
Posts: 27
paul64 wrote:
OP are you fighting boredom after 10 years on the same bike? I suspect many of us have been there.

If so then there may be nothing else except a new frame to satisfy you.
If not then you could try the opposite logic of having another worse bike which reminds you how good the 595 is when you ride it. By worse I don't mean a hack but maybe a good but slower winter bike, for example I would love to add a Whyte Dorset for winter riding with wider tyres and full mudguards.

I got bored with my steel Roberts and after about 15 years neglected it through a phase of riding carbon bikes. When I rebuilt the Roberts I appreciated it all over again and have just renewed it with respray, new wheels and DA9000 groupset. The frame is 22 years old now. My ride times are similar on all my bikes and a couple of mates have ridden each bike faster than I can proving as usual that it's mostly about the rider.

If you're simply trying to optimise the 595 then ignore me and follow the good advice posted by others.



I have already changed the groupset to 11 speed and also wheels using 60mm deep profile to optimise the look 595. Bike fitting was done by professional mechanic as well and i am able to get an average of 35-36km/hr but the thing bothering me is that the faster group is doing at 38-40km/hr averagely, so i am also asking whether is really the rider´s problem that i can keep up or maybe with the newer aero frame will i be able to get slightly faster and thus able to keep up with the group. The issue is that the group of riders are mostly on newer frame and no one have a old frame, only i am on one.. if it is my own problem that i am really not fast enough to cycle along with the fast group or the bike have something to do with this happening. I still love my 595 as it is very comfortable to ride whole day on but just wonder if a newer aero frame will help me to cycle along with the fast group.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 8
Sure, just thought I'd ask. Guessing no-one has a current gen bike you can try to see if you're faster? A retailer like Epic might be another route to explore as their business model was proper test riding when I bought my Viner a few years ago. As they used to sell Look and perhaps still do they may have good knowledge on the 595 relevant to current frames.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 820
Look595 wrote:
paul64 wrote:
OP are you fighting boredom after 10 years on the same bike? I suspect many of us have been there.

If so then there may be nothing else except a new frame to satisfy you.
If not then you could try the opposite logic of having another worse bike which reminds you how good the 595 is when you ride it. By worse I don't mean a hack but maybe a good but slower winter bike, for example I would love to add a Whyte Dorset for winter riding with wider tyres and full mudguards.

I got bored with my steel Roberts and after about 15 years neglected it through a phase of riding carbon bikes. When I rebuilt the Roberts I appreciated it all over again and have just renewed it with respray, new wheels and DA9000 groupset. The frame is 22 years old now. My ride times are similar on all my bikes and a couple of mates have ridden each bike faster than I can proving as usual that it's mostly about the rider.

If you're simply trying to optimise the 595 then ignore me and follow the good advice posted by others.



I have already changed the groupset to 11 speed and also wheels using 60mm deep profile to optimise the look 595. Bike fitting was done by professional mechanic as well and i am able to get an average of 35-36km/hr but the thing bothering me is that the faster group is doing at 38-40km/hr averagely, so i am also asking whether is really the rider´s problem that i can keep up or maybe with the newer aero frame will i be able to get slightly faster and thus able to keep up with the group. The issue is that the group of riders are mostly on newer frame and no one have a old frame, only i am on one.. if it is my own problem that i am really not fast enough to cycle along with the fast group or the bike have something to do with this happening. I still love my 595 as it is very comfortable to ride whole day on but just wonder if a newer aero frame will help me to cycle along with the fast group.


It's all about the rider, especially, your look is not an old 25 year old noodle steel bike, but a rather modern bike with already high profile wheels. Your Look is not really as aero as some of the latest models, but to improve your avg from 36 to 40 when in the wheels, no bike can help you with that. It's all up to you :wink: I recently saw an youtube film comparing a 'regular' bike to an 'aero' bike (madone 9), both with the same wheels. groupset, chain, pedals,...At the same wattage, the difference was less than a km/h avg , RIDING ALONE in the wind.

_________________
Current bikes:
Scott Addict Premium Disc 2018
Scott Addict Orica Greenedge 2015

Retired:
Canyon Endurace CF SLX 2016
Canyon Ultimate CF SLX 2013


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:28 pm
Posts: 220
Location: PR
I have seen other have my same experience but will add one anyways.

I have ridden many bikes, currently ride a Supersix built with Athena 11. Also have a C-59 built with SR11, both of these are amazing machines.
Would not really categorize them as faster as my all time favorite bike which is a C-40 I have built with 10 speed Chorus (this is pretty old MK II frame with 1" fork). Also have a Dream with 9 speed dura-ace that is a beauty.
I can ride any route, group ride or climb at the same speeds I do with any bike. So doubt just switching to a new bike will make you "faster".
Fit is pretty much same across my bikes and the C-40 is most comfortable which helps on long days, and I just feel better on the bike.

In conclusion having a new bike is certainly cool and nice, but faster I would say not really. Maybe on paper because its "stiffer", has a "better" bottom bracket and lighter. In the end it depends what your goal is, mine I want to enjoy the ride. Beating folks up the climb is secondary.

Cheers
Duvi


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 3758
Location: On the bike
TonyM wrote:
You may ride faster when alone with a new aero frame compared to your Look 595 --- but in a group (except when you are in the front) you will not be faster with it compared to your Look.



See below:


Quote:
During World Tour events there’s always a lot of talk about the aero models the pros are riding. Does it really make that much of a difference since they're usually drafting?

Most people already know aerodynamics are important in an individual event – a time-trial or solo breakaway, for example. Some people don’t think aero matters when riding in a group. They’ll say: “I’m drafting, aero doesn’t matter to me.” However, even in a group, most of the retarding force you’re pedaling against is still aero drag.

Asker Jeukendrup (High-Performance Cycling, 2002) measured a 30-per-cent decrease in power required while drafting, compared to riding alone. This roughly matches the drag savings we’ve measured on the road with our on-bike instrumentation. This decrease is due only to the reduction in aero drag when drafting, as nothing else changes: mechanical friction and rolling resistance are unaffected by drafting.

Most drag-yaw charts are taken from wind-tunnel test data for a single bike, not drafting. This data is usually the source for the most commonly cited drag savings. So when you’re in a group, discount the drag savings by about 30 per cent. For example, when we say the Cervélo S5 saves 9 Watts compared to the S3 when riding alone, it means you’ll save about 6 Watts when drafting in a group.

Remember: These savings are in addition to the power saved by drafting in the first place. By sitting in the group, you already save 30 per cent – after all, that’s why we draft. For example, if you already save 90 Watts by drafting, you can save 96 Watts by riding an S5. You save 6 more Watts.

https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering- ... he-peloton

_________________
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 646
Just keep repeating as you buy the new bike, "This is faster and better, this is faster and better." Soon, you will believe it (as may the significant other to whom you need to justify the expense). :thumbup:

_________________
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”


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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:18 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4436
Location: Natovi Landing
TonyM wrote:
Look595 wrote:
Sorry to bring up this old thread once again but i have a new situation to ask about. I tested some aero frames(Pina F8/Madone 9/Aeroad 2016) and found the bike to be slightly faster than the old look 595, maybe around 1-2km/hr at most with the same effort. sometimes it just make me wonder to think about let´s say i am riding with a fast group and i am just lacking slightly behind with them with my look 595, and getting the newer aero frame will increase the overall speed slightly as it is faster by a bit. in this case i will be able to catch up with the fast group. OR what else can i do if i were to stay with the look 595 to increase the speed and ride with along the fast group riders. My fitness/diet/bike fit and bike set-up is already at the optimized stage but not sure whether is it really the bike that is making the slight differences here between me getting slightly lacking behind or be able to ride along with the fast riders, the average speed we are going at for fast group is about 38-40km/hr


You may ride faster when alone with a new aero frame compared to your Look 595 --- but in a group (except when you are in the front) you will not be faster with it compared to your Look.

If you are "just lacking slightly behind with them" during your ride then make some strong effort to close the gap with the group and then stay within the group.

BTW, I am sure you can optimize something about your fitness (increase of your FTP for example), about your weight/ body fat for example (FTP per kg) or about your position on the bike etc....



I have this scenario across my stable, which includes traditional round tubed bikes, and an Aeroad as it happens.

There is no doubt that it is slightly easier to "keep up" with the Aeroad

But it's not huge

_________________
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:


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