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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:21 am 
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Posts: 723
mattr wrote:
TheDarkInstall wrote:
LOLz.

Between Jan and Sept 2016, they cleared 36,825,000,000yen, after all expenses. They have the budget.
profit doesn't equal engineering budget.


More lols from you as usual. Are you trying to tell me that a company with 14,505,215,797 USD market capacity (as of yesterday), whose core focus is innovation in sports technology, doesn't have an R&D budget to match, and one which can handle developing a rim that is 3.2mm wider than it was 13 years ago? Hahahahaha.

Seeing as you are such an expert on company balance sheets, here is the Shimano financial statement for 2016 Q3. The numbers start on page 5; how much is their R&D?

http://www.shimano.com/content/Corporat ... 016-Q3.pdf

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Last edited by TheDarkInstall on Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:37 am 
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Posts: 11
I'm done with Shimano wheel, they are losing control of the brand. They are no more reliable than any other Chinese wheel on the market!


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:37 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:32 am 
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Posts: 723
This whole disaster has got me thinking though...

Let's assume for a moment that the issue with the 9100 C24/50/60 wheels not matching the stated measurements was an error with the listing, and not the product itself. This would mean that Shimano have consciously decided to keep the width of the aluminium clinchers at 20.8mm, which is a width they introduced in the 7850 Dura Ace clincher range way back in 2004. They have done this, despite acknowledging the trend for wider rim in their carbon rims in the same Dura Ace range, and means that by the time 9200 (or whatever they call it) comes out, in approximately 2020-ish, they will have been using 20.8mm for their flagship clincher rim for 16 years. They clearly know this, so I wonder why...?

I have a theory;

Shimano know their market well. From what I can see, Dura Ace is bought by two kinds of people; firstly, it is bought by racers and shredders who demand excellence, and actually use high end gear right to the limit. It is also bought by monied MAMILs (which I would imagine is actually the main market share). This second group, while wanting the latest top end gear, is never going to use it anywhere near the limit, and is also rather conservative, so making a 20.8mm rim with the Dura Ace name on it for these people is perfect. It is guaranteed to fit in whatever frame they put it in which means more people will be able to use Dura Ace stuff, so Shimano will sell more, and get more exposure / advertising across the board. It also adheres to the conservative notion of 'stick to what you know', so the older guys who focus on nostalgia in cycling also get that desire met.

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Last edited by TheDarkInstall on Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:46 am 
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Location: RVA,USA
You may be on to something....

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Posts: 61
They've gone wider on Tubular's. The 9100's are 28mm wide.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:52 am
Posts: 91
TheDarkInstall wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that a company with 14,505,215,797 USD market capacity (as of yesterday), whose core focus is innovation in sports technology


I'd like to know more about this market capacity.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 582
TheDarkInstall wrote:
I have a theory;

Shimano know their market well. From what I can see, Dura Ace is bought by two kinds of people; firstly, it is bought by racers and shredders who demand excellence, and actually use high end gear right to the limit. It is also bought by monied MAMILs (which I would imagine is actually the main market share). This second group, while wanting the latest top end gear, is never going to use it anywhere near the limit, and is also rather conservative, so making a 20.8mm rim with the Dura Ace name on it for these people is perfect. It is guaranteed to fit in whatever frame they put it in which means more people will be able to use Dura Ace stuff, so Shimano will sell more, and get more exposure / advertising across the board. It also adheres to the conservative notion of 'stick to what you know', so the older guys who focus on nostalgia in cycling also get that desire met.


This doesn't explain why they sticked with the C40 name and published false rim data. Also sneaking new data into an old spec document is wild.

Ok. here is my theory: they decided to sunset their rim brake clincher line in their next generation (9200) and simply it's not worth to develop a new rim brake clincher rim at this point. They know that there will be only a handful of rim brake frames available for the public in 4 years, so no reason to put money into a new alloy / carbon rim.

The new tubeless compatible, disc specific rim has the new height and width. The tubular rims got updated too, so the pros will be covered, whatever happens with the disc brake UCI approval in the future.

I find it extremely troubling that none of the cycling websites covered this story. I wonder how they call themselves journalists.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:35 am 
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Posts: 723
nemeseri wrote:
TheDarkInstall wrote:
I have a theory;

Shimano know their market well. From what I can see, Dura Ace is bought by two kinds of people; firstly, it is bought by racers and shredders who demand excellence, and actually use high end gear right to the limit. It is also bought by monied MAMILs (which I would imagine is actually the main market share). This second group, while wanting the latest top end gear, is never going to use it anywhere near the limit, and is also rather conservative, so making a 20.8mm rim with the Dura Ace name on it for these people is perfect. It is guaranteed to fit in whatever frame they put it in which means more people will be able to use Dura Ace stuff, so Shimano will sell more, and get more exposure / advertising across the board. It also adheres to the conservative notion of 'stick to what you know', so the older guys who focus on nostalgia in cycling also get that desire met.


This doesn't explain why they sticked with the C40 name and published false rim data. Also sneaking new data into an old spec document is wild.

Ok. here is my theory: they decided to sunset their rim brake clincher line in their next generation (9200) and simply it's not worth to develop a new rim brake clincher rim at this point. They know that there will be only a handful of rim brake frames available for the public in 4 years, so no reason to put money into a new alloy / carbon rim.

The new tubeless compatible, disc specific rim has the new height and width. The tubular rims got updated too, so the pros will be covered, whatever happens with the disc brake UCI approval in the future.

I find it extremely troubling that none of the cycling websites covered this story. I wonder how they call themselves journalists.


I totally agree with all of that. Good points.

And yeah, it is very lame that none of the cycling press have even mentioned this. Silence, rather than ignorance, for sure. I might make a rant video about it all. Haha :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:36 am 
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Posts: 723
GothicCastle wrote:
TheDarkInstall wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that a company with 14,505,215,797 USD market capacity (as of yesterday), whose core focus is innovation in sports technology


I'd like to know more about this market capacity.


What do you want to know?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:45 am 
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Posts: 91
TheDarkInstall wrote:
GothicCastle wrote:
TheDarkInstall wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that a company with 14,505,215,797 USD market capacity (as of yesterday), whose core focus is innovation in sports technology


I'd like to know more about this market capacity.


What do you want to know?


Market Cap = market capitalization


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:43 am
Posts: 10
hmmm its interesting. I thinck shimano reuses its wheel through non upgrade


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:55 am 
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Posts: 723
GothicCastle wrote:
TheDarkInstall wrote:
GothicCastle wrote:
TheDarkInstall wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that a company with 14,505,215,797 USD market capacity (as of yesterday), whose core focus is innovation in sports technology


I'd like to know more about this market capacity.


What do you want to know?


Market Cap = market capitalization


LOL, so your initial reply was a passive aggressive set up to aim a dig at a phone typo. Brilliant.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:52 am
Posts: 91
TheDarkInstall wrote:

LOL, so your initial reply was a passive aggressive set up to aim a dig at a phone typo. Brilliant.


Welcome to the web.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:58 pm
Posts: 17
Location: BKK, Thailand
Are C40s available in US or EU yet?

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Last edited by hatcha23 on Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:22 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 68
I don't think anyone knows because I don't think anyone wants them anymore, lol


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