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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 56
Hi there everyone!

Let's get this out of the way first: I am fully aware that a 200g lighter frame isn't going to make me any measurably faster. I am FULLY aware that any benefits gained from spending an extra 1000+€ to go from the mid-level frame to the range-topping one will in all probability be intangible. Having said this, I just really want a stupid-light, really freaking awesome frame.

I've been riding my Caad9 for the past three years (and loving it) but time has come for a change. I will be building the bike from the ground up myself, like i've always done up to this point. I want a very racy, climbing oriented frame, ideally with ZERO aero styling and preferably with a horizontal top tube.

The thing is, all of the frames I like that meet these criteria are well into the 3000€ range. Supersix Evo Hi-Mod, Focus Izalco Max, Emonda (the looks really kill this one for me though), BMC TeamMachine, Fuji SL 1.1, Argon18 Gallium Pro... I could potentially get the money together but 3k is still a rather heavy chunk of change for me at the moment. Not to mention I'll be racing this bike and would really rather not crash out on a 5k bike though, once again, I could potentially face the financial aftermath.

And just as I was set to drop 3k, today I was offered the chance to buy a new-in-box, Caja Rural Team Issue Fuji SL frameset for under 1000€. Now this is not the 1.1 670g frame, it's the 2.x one. Which basically makes it the SuperSix EVO to the SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod. Same geometry, same theoretical stiffness, just a little over 200g more for the frame+fork. I also really like the colors:

Image

I really like what i've read about the 1.1, and it's really hard to resist the 1000€+ savings. The thing is, I don't want to think "yeah, it's cool, but it's not the really cool one" every time I look at the bike. Kinda like you wanted to buy a BMW M3 and then settled for the 340i instead because it was "90% of the car for 60% of the price, and a much more sensible option".

Has anyone found themselves in this situation? Were you satisfied with your purchase? Or did the frame not last you the season because you just wanted the range-topper REALLY badly?

Any and all input is welcome!


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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:09 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:00 pm
Posts: 124
The SL 2. is a fine bike and I don't think you'll notice any real world difference to the 1.1. That said, the SL 1.1 frame is not in the 3000EUR range, but more in the 1800EUR range.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:28 am 
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Posts: 6571
Location: Athens, Greece
IMHO this is a wise choise since you like the frame.
I have bought most of my frames used for like 1/2-1/3 of their original price. In this way I saved money for used LWs and other used hi-end parts. I could not be more happy.

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My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 56
Lightweenie wrote:
That said, the SL 1.1 frame is not in the 3000EUR range, but more in the 1800EUR range.


I know, that's the reason it was #1 on my list even though it has a sloping top tube! 1800 certainly is a lot more palatable than 300, but it's still a full 900 more than the SL2.

The 1.1s are getting harder to find, particularly in 54-56cm sizes, and the 2018 model is a little more expensive, I'm seeing it a bit over 2000€ in most places.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 56
kgt wrote:
IMHO this is a wise choise since you like the frame.
I have bought most of my frames used for like 1/2-1/3 of their original price. In this way I saved money for used LWs and other used hi-end parts. I could not be more happy.


I'm also a fan of buying used, but all of the 2016-2017 3k frames are selling for around 2k+, and at that price I'd definately get the SL 1.1 if I could find it.

My current CAAD9 was bought used as was the Red10 groupset I'm using, and they've held up great!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:28 am 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 3257
Kaboom wrote:
Has anyone found themselves in this situation?
Yes. But an MTB instead of road bike.

Kaboom wrote:
Were you satisfied with your purchase?
Hell yeah.

Kaboom wrote:
Or did the frame not last you the season because you just wanted the range-topper REALLY badly?
Nope, kept it for 8 years, only just replaced last week. The money saved going for the 3rd in line frame paid for better groupset, better wheels and better finishing kit, all of which made more difference to the ride than the ~200grams i lost on the frame weight.
Some fag packet calculations said it was the cheapest way to get to that weight. (I saved more weight on the better kit than i lost on the worse frame.)

I'm even taking some of the better kit off the old bike and putting it on the new one, as i've done the same again.........


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm
Posts: 964
If you really want an evo himod which by your description you do, then get a himod. The guji has a sloping tube. If you will still want a flat top tube in a fee months than buy the bike you want now. Snipe on ebay and find it for cheap.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 706
If you really want stiffness - in General based on all the data I've seen in places like TOUR magazine - most of the time the heavier frame is stiffer. There is a lot of marketing BS that the more expensive frame is lighter and stiffer.

I've seen this in a lot of Manufacturers - BMC, Cannondale, Storck.

I'm in the same spot as you. I want a really stiff frame for my next project and my head is torn between the really cool looking bike and there actual performance.

I want a Storck(I've had about 6 of them) and have been looking at the F.3 and Aernario. They are light and based on testing are both around 100NM in the Headtube and 60NM in the BB, which is stiff but not the top numbers.

On the other hand this summer I ran across a great deal on a Storck Visioner for less than 600 Euros new in the box. I bought it for a trainer frame - however it tests at 124 NM in the Headtube and 71 Nm in the BB - if I really want a stiff frame - this is the one I should build even if it is 300 grams heavier. I should also put my non aero Fulcrum Zero Carbon's on it as they are a lot stiffer than my Bora's.

With the money I'll save not getting one of the top shelf frames I could do a wicked paint job on the Visioner and that's probably what I will do.

The moral of the story is - If you a want stiff frame for climbing - the heavier one might actually be stiffer and it will feel better on the climb and I would guess would be no slower as less energy is lost - but I've never seen a test like that.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm
Posts: 177
I'm glad I went with a Tarmac Pro over an S-Works. I have ridden both and can't tell a difference and the real world difference on painted frames seems to be sub 100g for that model. It freed up a lot of money to spend on nicer parts. There tends to be a big difference between the entry level carbon and top end, but the second tier stuff always seems to be super close regardless of brand.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:16 am
Posts: 27
You like the paint (hugely important IMO) and the price is right... buy it! Guaranteed you can't tell the difference on the road.

Also the 340i is not 90% of the M3 :D :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:35 am
Posts: 757
I think it depends on the frame.

If the only difference is weight or paint, I think going to the second tier is a great option. Heck, in some cases, the lower tier options are the exact same frame except for paint - looking at your Specialized Venge Vias.

But if there are other differences, like geometry or frame design, I'd be more cautious. I'm referring specifically to the Argon Gallium line. I'm not sure if things have changed, but for the last couple of years the Pro had a completely different design from the non-Pro. I have the current Pro and I had the older Pro, which shared the same design as the most-recent non-Pro. I would not advise going with the non-Pro design.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 793
Stay with the frame you love, and upgrade the stuff on it. If it's true love then nothing is going to be the same...

C


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 56
Thanks everyone for the replies! I know I'm in the right forum when not a single one of them included anything along the lines of "you're retarded for even considering anything more than a second hand chinese Huffy with Sora" like they do in plenty of other forums...

You guys are definitely pushing me a lot closer to pulling the trigger on one of these SL2 Fujis...

For what it's worth i've checked the geometry charts and the SL 1.1 and SL 2 frames share every tube dimension and angle EXACTLY, and they look completely identical in pictures, too. I'm not sold on the semi-compact geo and external cable routing, but for a little under 900€ its looking more and more like my next frame.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 56
uraqt wrote:
Stay with the frame you love, and upgrade the stuff on it. If it's true love then nothing is going to be the same...

C


I wont be getting rid of it, I've enjoyed it too much, it's the first frame I ever did a Sportive on, a hilly century on, ever raced on... But a few weeks ago I made the mistake of borrowing a carbon bike and although the CAADs have a reputation for stiffness the way that current model year mid-range Merida rode and felt just blew me away. It just felt SO different from the Alu frames i've always ridden.

So I won't be getting rid of it, but it's time to ride something new.


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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:53 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm
Posts: 157
Kaboom wrote:
Thanks everyone for the replies! I know I'm in the right forum when not a single one of them included anything along the lines of "you're retarded for even considering anything more than a second hand chinese Huffy with Sora" like they do in plenty of other forums...

You guys are definitely pushing me a lot closer to pulling the trigger on one of these SL2 Fujis...

For what it's worth i've checked the geometry charts and the SL 1.1 and SL 2 frames share every tube dimension and angle EXACTLY, and they look completely identical in pictures, too. I'm not sold on the semi-compact geo and external cable routing, but for a little under 900€ its looking more and more like my next frame.


For the price difference, you can spend a week in sunny Southern Europe during the winter with your cheaper frame and easily knock off 200 grams of body weight.


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