Zipp hub 177 and Shimano cassette issues

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

hi there,

I got a new set of Zipp 202, which I just sent them back to replace them with Zipp 303 NSW.

They were ridden only once for exactly 68km. To my horror when I pulled out the cassette (Shimano CS-6800 11spd) I noticed how the small (free) cogs actually dented (digg) very little (I'd say abt 1/2mm) the free hub. (Now I really hope the LBS will just swap the wheels for the NSW and I won't have to go the warranty route).

I understand the hub is Aluminium and the cogs are steel, does this mean the only cassette I can use is the SRAM XG-1190 as I see the small cogs are aluminum?

The hub is advertised as Shimano compatible but if it sustained that type of damage at under 100km and no real climbing I imagine the cogs will cut like hot knife in butter in the hub over half a season.

as the cognition hub of the nsw is also aluminum based can you please share what sram/Shimano 11 SPD cassette are you using without any major affect on the hub?

Many thanks,
Dorin

2old4this
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:26 am

by 2old4this

Practically all my Shimano cassettes dig a little (tiny, minuscule) to the alimunum freehub bodies. What you saw may be normal. Do you have any pictures?

by Weenie


dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

Unfortunately I realized only after I packed the wheels to send them back I didn't photograph them. I would understand to have ware marks after a season, or even mid season, but not even 100km came as a shock. They weren't deep, you could see scarfing on the hub as small dents. I'll order the sram cassette as I saw in description the small cogs are made of aluminum, so al. on al. Should be better.

I was expecting more from 2'000 euro wheels. My cheap Shimano WH6800 have abt 6'000km and not a mark on the hub ,ok, the hub is steel...

A new hub is 100€, but I'd hate having to replace it every month or so

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F45
Posts: 856
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by F45

Shimano freehubs are not designed to be aluminum. Notice the only aluminum shimano freehub was the aborted 7800 with taller splines. Zipp should use ti; their wheels are expensive enough.

There is the staple trick - bend a heavy duty staple straight and slide it in between the cogs and one of the splines. Use torque grease on your lock ring and torque to the spec (40N-m iirc). If your lockring is dry, some of your torque is going into friction, not increasing clamping strength to where it should be.

jmagoulas
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:00 am
Location: Connecticut USA

by jmagoulas

F45 wrote: Use torque grease on your lock ring and torque to the spec (40N-m iirc). If your lockring is dry, some of your torque is going into friction, not increasing clamping strength to where it should be.


Nice pro tip. I always installed the torque ring dry. Is this good common practice to follow?

eric01
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am

by eric01

Normal. Make sure you tighten down the lock ring on the cassette. I've found that wear is worse if its not tight.

Or you could use a SRAM or EDCO mono block cassette...
AX Lightness Vial Evo, Carl Strong Titanium

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

This is normal and disgraceful. Zipp is not alone - same problem with very expensive Chris King hubs and others. Shimano cassettes should come with a warning not to use on aluminum freehubs, and aluminum freehubs should be marked as not compatible with Shimano cassettes. In extreme cases cogs can cut all the way through the splines. Even a moderate amount of notching can make some cassettes nearly impossible to remove from the hub. (See YouTube for special techniques if you get into this situation.)

Sram cassettes solve your problem. The 1190 is wildly expensive though.
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ryanw
Posts: 325
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by ryanw

My Dura Ace cassettes haven't marked my 2016 404s at all, and that's with numerous 1,300w+ sprints going through the rear hub.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

If the replace your wheels for that, i would be amazed.
I have same issues appear on my No tubes Avion. But i wouldn't call them small dents.
Part from that, i start to dislike my Shimano cassettes as they also creak.
Both DA and UL. Swap to Edco Monoblock and both these issues are gone.
I first thought it was the pressfit BB. But that was not the problem.
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Valbrona
Posts: 1482
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

When I last looked, Campag wheels all came with steel Shimano freehub bodies. Simple design logic.

The Novatec bite guard FHBs are one solution.

Attermann
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Denmark

by Attermann

Valbrona wrote:When I last looked, Campag wheels all came with steel Shimano freehub bodies. Simple design logic.

The Novatec bite guard FHBs are one solution.



They have a freehub they call PEO, it's aluminium with a ceramic coating.

5 8 5
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Location: UK

by 5 8 5

Mr.Gib wrote:Shimano cassettes should come with a warning not to use on aluminum freehubs

What a silly thing to say! From a legal point of view it wouldn't be smart and why should they discourage sales of their own product when it's up to a rival manufacturer to produce a freehub that is fully compatible with Shimano cassettes. These wheels are all advertised as Shimano / Sram compatible.

Mr.Gib wrote:and aluminum freehubs should be marked as not compatible with Shimano cassettes.
Agree, or at the least make it clear that there could be issues with certain cassettes.

Ultimately, the onus is on the "compatible freehub" manufactuers to make a more durable product even if it means making it in steel or titanium.

dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

F45 wrote:There is the staple trick - bend a heavy duty staple straight and slide it in between the cogs and one of the splines.

Sorry for delay, I was away. I'll try to see if I can do that when I get the new wheels. But I don't remember having any space left between the cogs and any part of the hub, was a tight fit...

By torque grease do you mean anything specific or just grease, as I edit find anything specific when googling, unless is an industrial product.


Cheers,
Dorin

eric01
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am

by eric01

Novatec and I believe American Classic hubs use a small steel insert on the aluminum hub bodies. Clever. The cog to hub body interface is steel, while majority of the body is aluminum for lightweight. Other mfg's should adopt assuming there is no patent barriers.

White Industries and Dura Ace hubs use titanium hub bodies. More durable.
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by Weenie


dorin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

Sorry for lack of knowledge but are they compatible? I mean could I simply swap a novatec or Shimano hub into a Zipp wheel? 177 hub? Are any specific industry standards or every manufactures has its own design and swapping is simply not compatible?

Cheers,
Dorin

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