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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 310
A few people have asked me my opinion of the Basso Diamante so I thought I'd make things easier by directing them to this short post.

Its been about a year since I last rode it, so my memory of it is somewhat foggy. I rode ~1700km on it prior to selling it.

Build:
- 2015 Basso Diamante 53cm
- 110 mm Basso Stem
- FSA K-force compact 40cm
- Fulcrum Racing Speed XLR with 25mm conti competition tubs
- Bastadized Campy groupset (mostly 2015 Chrous/Record/SR mix with 2014 SR cranks)
- Romin Evo Ti saddle
- Dura-ace 7800 pedals
- Cant remember the exact weight, but it was around 6.9kg

Build quirk of note: The cable routing for the front and rear derailleurs is made easy with a well designed sheath that runs the course of the frame. The same cannot be said for the rear brake however. It was a total PIA trying to thread the brake cable through the top-tube without a cable guide. A very strong magnet and about 45mins was required to thread the cable. Obviously it could be done faster by a proper mechanic.

Fit and Handling:The thing that really stuck in my mind about the bike was the geometry and the handling. The comfort-kit headset is a great design because it caters to a wider range of fits than much any other frame I know (I think the Cipollini NK1K has a similar system). Naturally I chose an ultra-aggressive position simply because it was available. I rode a 53cm, which has an unusually long reach of 593mm. With a tiny head tube, 110 mm stem one 5 mm spacer, I had an enormous saddle-HB drop of 11.5 cm. Though on paper it seems too long and too low for my height (173cm), it wasn’t! The low centre of gravity combined with a tight wheel base made for a frame with outstanding handling. I had never, and haven’t since experienced such a confidence inspiring handling. The bike feels firmly planted on the ground so you can just throw the bike into a corner without feeling your precariously perched high up on a thin piece of carbon. An ingredient that contributed to this brilliant handling was the sense of unification in the frame. The sense of unification is probably created by the front end being just as stiff as the rear. The bike feels like it’s just one whole piece beneath you rather than something in between the contact points of your hands n’ butt.

Ride quality:Obviously, wheel choice makes a big difference to how a bike feels, but the overall ride quality is somewhat muted. Road feel back is dulled out so you don’t get a great sense of the texture of the surface beneath you. Overall, I found its manner on smooth tarmac to be uninspiring. I recall riding around centennial part thinking to myself “Gee this bike is boring”. Admittedly centennial park is pretty boring to ride around, but I don’t get that feeling with either of my current rigs (Oltre, Dale, SLR01).

In terms of responsiveness at the pedalling platform, the bike really rides like a diesel truck – it’s slow off the mark and anything but snappy (compared to some other bikes in its league e.g. Madone 9.9, Oltre XR2, Cannondale Evo etc.). This is one feature of the frame which I felt let it down somewhat. Nonetheless, this is not to say the BB is soft. Rather, once you lug the bike up to speed, it stays there happily. As such, it’s a fastish feeling bike. The analogy of a diesel truck is really is spot on I think. Basically it didn't communicate much to you, it just plodded along.
As you might expect, comfort is ample for a racing bike. Overall body fatigue after 3-4 hours is noticeably less than I typically experience with my Oltre. Though tbh I cant really remember exactly what the comfort was like.

In a nutshell, it has some really nice traits - the amazing planted handling and the sense of unification - and some not so great traits i.e. slightly dull ride quality and slow acceleration profile.

Image

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:11 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:40 am 
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Posts: 756
awesome cranks! also how do you like these wheels?

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Bobo S&S Steel Bike - 7.5 kg
Oltre XR2- 6.6 kg
Look 585 - 6.8 kg


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:40 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 310
mrgray wrote:
awesome cranks! also how do you like these wheels?


The XLRs are basically Campy Bora Ultra 2's. The hubs are truly lovely and add a lot to the ride quality of the wheels. They feel ulta-smooth, like butter, so the overall sensation is one of skating over ice. Lateral stiffness is adequate (in that you dont get brake rub), but not amazing. They do a good job of smoothing out the bumps. The only department they are lacking in is aerodynamics. They are noticeably faster than a set of box section clinchers, but they arent nearly as fast as Hed's Zipps, Xentis 5.8s or Easton Aero 55 (which are the fastest feeling wheels Ive ridden). The difference is in holding speed. Whilst the other wheelset make riding over 35km/h that much easier, the Fulcrums just dont. They want to slow down just like shallow wheels.

What campy really need to do is get a wind tunnel and fix their rim shapes. They should know well enough that V-shaped rims are tech thats getting onto 20 years old now. If they got off their asses and modernised the rim shape, then they'd be among the best wheels you can get.

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 310
Actually, now I remember it, the rear hub did develop some intractable lateral play. That was pretty irritating so I got rid of them.

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Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 1067
Location: FIN
zappafile123 wrote:
mrgray wrote:
awesome cranks! also how do you like these wheels?



What campy really need to do is get a wind tunnel and fix their rim shapes. They should know well enough that V-shaped rims are tech thats getting onto 20 years old now. If they got off their asses and modernised the rim shape, then they'd be among the best wheels you can get.


Talk with someone who KNOWS aerodynamics and is not sponsored by anyone, and come back here to repeat what you heard about V vs U shape and its aeroness ;) . Or - if you don't have any access to KNOWLEDGE / dot not under any circumstces take marketing crap as knowledge ! / - just take a look at newest Enve rims shape.

Image

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Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am
Posts: 716
^man, it's A LOT more nuisanced than that. There is aero and then there is stability and then there is tire size.

Saying V is faster than U and vice versa isn't being fully informed of the entire conversation.

Back on topic, thanks for the review, I was one that asked for it and it's much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 1067
Location: FIN
SLCBrandon wrote:
^man, it's A LOT more nuisanced than that.


That's why before judging you should ask someone who know ;)

_________________
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am
Posts: 716
stormur wrote:
SLCBrandon wrote:
^man, it's A LOT more nuisanced than that.


That's why before judging you should ask someone who know ;)


I do. (Heavy emphasis on the period)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 310
stormur wrote:
dot not under any circumstces take marketing crap as knowledge !


Good piece of advice. But to steer things in a better direction, I said Bora's/Fulcrums didnt feel as fast as modern aero wheels. I then attributed this to the shape of the rim and implied the fact that a lot of these new rims are designed by aerodynamicists ("modernise"). It is fair to say that older rims were literally just a V-shape cause they thought it'd be faster, not because they tested it to be so. That's what I was referring to, not that "All rims which are roughly pointed like a V are not aerodynamic as a blunt nose rim". Butttt.... you know... I guess I did kinda say that didnt I? Woops!

At the end of the day perception of speed (and strava evidence of higher averages) is whats more important than a technical misnomer about rim shape. The initially mentioned wheels are faster than Fulcrums/Boras full stop.

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 821
zappafile123 wrote:
mrgray wrote:
awesome cranks! also how do you like these wheels?


The XLRs are basically Campy Bora Ultra 2's. The hubs are truly lovely and add a lot to the ride quality of the wheels. They feel ulta-smooth, like butter, so the overall sensation is one of skating over ice. Lateral stiffness is adequate (in that you dont get brake rub), but not amazing. They do a good job of smoothing out the bumps. The only department they are lacking in is aerodynamics. They are noticeably faster than a set of box section clinchers, but they arent nearly as fast as Hed's Zipps, Xentis 5.8s or Easton Aero 55 (which are the fastest feeling wheels Ive ridden). The difference is in holding speed. Whilst the other wheelset make riding over 35km/h that much easier, the Fulcrums just dont. They want to slow down just like shallow wheels.

What campy really need to do is get a wind tunnel and fix their rim shapes. They should know well enough that V-shaped rims are tech thats getting onto 20 years old now. If they got off their asses and modernised the rim shape, then they'd be among the best wheels you can get.


A few month's ago, Bora's got tested (by Tour or other) and had very good aero results. There was a thread about it over here that I don't find immediately. I'll post a link if I do.

_________________
Current bikes:
Scott Addict Premium Disc 2018
Scott Addict Orica Greenedge 2015

Retired:
Canyon Endurace CF SLX 2016
Canyon Ultimate CF SLX 2013


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 310
Delorre wrote:
zappafile123 wrote:

A few month's ago, Bora's got tested (by Tour or other) and had very good aero results.


Is that right? Interesting! One possible confound is that all the wheels I listed as being faster are deeper by 5-10 mm. But it kinda shows how reliable first person reporting is!

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:22 am 
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 821
Here the topic talking about Bora aero performances...

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=140537&hilit=aero

_________________
Current bikes:
Scott Addict Premium Disc 2018
Scott Addict Orica Greenedge 2015

Retired:
Canyon Endurace CF SLX 2016
Canyon Ultimate CF SLX 2013


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 310
Delorre wrote:
Here the topic talking about Bora aero performances...

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=140537&hilit=aero


Thanks for the link. I cant really pass judgement on what Tour magazine have found becuase a) I havent read what their methods were and b) I'm not an aerodynamicist so I cant really assess the soundness of the methods they've employed. I will say that reporting an average wattage over different yaw angles for determining how fast two different wheelsets are from each other is misleading. This is because the distribution of yaw angles employed is negatively skewed. This unfairly weights (what are in reality) negligible differences.

Obviously I'm biased, the bikes I used across my experiences and the environment were different for each wheel test. So I cant say objectively "Bora's are slower". But I'll put money on it that they are. We need a white paper by a third party, not for profit group of scientists to settle this debate!

Anyway, lets keep this thread about the Diamante and shift the aero wheel talk to an aero wheel thread.

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:00 am
Posts: 106
Location: Connecticut USA
Had my eye on a Basso but overall ended passing due to the geo. Couldn't get over the low HT. Wish I knew more about the comfort kit and range of fit. Because as you said on paper the fit looks like it just wouldn't work but in the end worked out great. Great spec on the build.


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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:54 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:08 am
Posts: 234
Nice review. You and I must have same figment. I had a romin evo like you but opted for a power because it looked better moved forward than the traditional saddles. Basso doesn't make a zero offset for the diamanté so we are stuck I guess. I too have a 110 stem but may get a 100 soon


Image


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