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 Post subject: Another Pedal Thread..
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Posts: 801
Sorry to start new pedal thread, but would like to share my observation about this..

Im MTB ing from midle of 90's and most of the time i was using Time ATAC Pedals then(few years, mud, snow, any kind of weather...), and those pedals (and cleats for them), was totaly maintence free and totaly problem free.

Based on this good experience i had, i bought Time Xpresso 10 peadals for my road bike,and i was using them until month ago, and now i switched to try Look Keo 2 Max Carbon.

My observation:

1. Time Xpresso 10 (15000 km until now)

Pro: Very Light, nice float, Q-Factor, Stack, Knee Friendly..

Cons:

Not spining smoothly (ok, i realized how to upgrade bearings, so i guess i'll solve this problem).

Tension too low for me, i can unclip accidently (once i tried to jump obostacle on the road, and i got unclipped from both pedals.. It was scary situation, and i really had a lot of luck to dont fall down..) Tried to adjust the tension screw, but this screw is so soft i damaged not putting to much force, so i just give up (i stil handle it to move to next position). Even then, the tension is too low for me...

Cleats are so easy to damage, and not last long.I can cut with scissors excesive parts, and still be able to clip/unclip, but even easier to unclip.And not existing cleat covers that i know for (to be able to walk if it's needed, without destroying the cleats)
Also i got idea that quality of cleats is non consistent. One pair last like 500 km, the other 2000 km (ordering from same place, the cleats look the same, and the walking activity the same)

Also Dont like that sometimes, im not sure if i clipped in, so i unclip then clip again (that i-click make me that feeling that im clipped in, and im not).



2. Look Keo 2 Max Carbon -

Pro: Not expensive, adjustable spring, different cleats for different release angle, Cleats cover for walking, i like the feeling of clipping in (i know that i got clipped in for sure), nice bearings spinning for now (ok, i have like 500 km which is nothing)

Cons:

Creaking noise that i read about. I have cleats with grips, and i read that this kind are more prone of creaking, so i'll try with other ones as well.

Not that lightweight, Not that Knee friendly as Time (seem that i need to adjust more detailed or switch to cleats with bigger release angle..).

If i switch to the Blade 2 Carbon Ti, i'll have lightweight pedal, loose the adjustability (but i bought Keo 2 Max with adjustable spring, to find out which setting im ok, and to upgrade to Keo Blades with similar Spring force, so this non adjustability wont be a problem), but probably ill still have that creaking noise...


3. Shimano Pedals - I read so many positive reviews but did not having chance to try them. But i'll share pros/cons based on reading:

Pro: High Quality, Maintence free, different cleats for different angles, cleat covers, long lasting cleats

Cons: Not visual match for Campagnolo bike :), Heavy

4. Speed Play - im not interested in this pedals, based on reading about a lot of maintence, specific cleats etc...


So even SPD Pedals are so long in use for road bike, seem that still in 2017 there is no perfect system, and still a lot of problems (except shimano as i read, but i explained their cons for me).And to be honest, i stil cant understund how is this possible with all other improvements to other components.

Anyway, For me based on all this, seem that Look pedals have the negatives that maybe i can accept. Do u think im going in right direction if i switch to Look Carbon Ti, from my Xpresso 10? Or just to wait for some new model to happen? (and in meanwhile to play with my Keo 2 Max Carbon and Time Xpresso 10) :). I can see some online realiers sell Keo Blade Cr Ti 2017. Is there any difference between 2017 and 2016 model?


p.s. U used search, read a lot of threads, but did not find the answers im looking for..


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 Post subject: Another Pedal Thread..
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:08 pm 


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 Post subject: Another Pedal Thread..
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Posts: 349
Try out some Keywins, either the Carbon or CRM model. I have used Speedplay, Look and Shimano. Now on Keywin across 3 bikes and can not see myself changing. They are light, especially the Ti Spindle models, the cleats last for ages, the float is built into the pedal body not the cleat system, you can adjust the float or not have any float if you wish, the platform is massive, the pedal can be completely rebuilt.

The only cons in my mind are aesthetics but the Carbon model looks better than the CRM model. Also availability may be limited. I seriously do not know why they aren't more popular.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:32 pm 
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3Pio wrote:
2. Look Keo 2 Max Carbon -

Creaking noise that i read about. I have cleats with grips, and i read that this kind are more prone of creaking, so i'll try with other ones as well.

I've had several sets of Look Keos from the cheapest to the Blades and I've not had an issue with this. My last set of Blades would squeak a tiny bit if they were bone dry, but just the lightest smear of chain oil or teflon spray where the cleat hits the pedal always made it totally silent again.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:43 am 
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Posts: 594
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA
+1 on Keywins. Rode CRMs for many years, all seasons. Switched to carbon ti model a few years ago when it came out, and still rotating smooth & easy with no maintenance having been done. You can also disassemble easily to use the lube of your choice, which can make a difference depending on your weather.

FWIW, I block out the float rotation with the included little tabs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Posts: 1738
UpFromOne wrote:
+1 on Keywins. Rode CRMs for many years, all seasons. Switched to carbon ti model a few years ago when it came out, and still rotating smooth & easy with no maintenance having been done. You can also disassemble easily to use the lube of your choice, which can make a difference depending on your weather.

FWIW, I block out the float rotation with the included little tabs.


I used Keywins for a number of years and everything that's been said is true - they are a fantastic design. The two things I would say would improve them would be greater adjustment range in attaching the cleat to the shoe (to better facilitate a more toes-out or heels-out position) and the option to have less float than six degrees, without going all the way to fixed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Posts: 723
-Time / Mavic. Utter, utter, utter shite. Avoid.

-Look. Bearings develop play in them very quickly. Stiff bearings out of the box. Cleats are mushy when you clip in. Carbon blade thing is a gimmick that breaks.

-Shimano. The absolute best. I am still on Dura Ace 7900, and have given them hell over the course of 5 years. Bearings are still totally perfect (and excellently engineered), and the clip in is still as positive and loud as it was on day one. Cleats available everywhere, really nice wide base, etc. They are the ultimate.

Speedplay. Pedal body seems alright, but the cleat system is an over-complex, over-engineered joke, that needs lubing, and a large rubber thing attaching to it so you don't grind the metal body into the floor every time you get off the bike. Compare this to Shimano cleats...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Posts: 94
I'm another one for Shimano.

I used to have some Look delta pedals and they lasted about 10 years without ever needing a grease gun. I thought I would go for the new lightweight keo's as a normal replacement and they were drivel. The bearings in the original delta pedals were of very good quality. The replacement keos were rubbish.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:24 pm 
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I love my Time Xpressos because of the knee friendly float, light weight and wide platform. The biggest downside is the cleat wears too quickly, but they are too expensive either.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:44 am 
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Posts: 1110
Location: Loveland, CO
I recently switched pedals from Speedplay to Shimano 9100. All I can say is wow. Light, stiff, and spins freely without friction. Power transfer is much improved along with a pair of stiff carbon-soled shoes (Sidi Wire). I had to buy two pairs as I have two bikes. It's well worth it. Believe in the Shimano hype, LOL.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:41 pm 
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Location: Vicenza
Another Keywin user from many years, and no complain from my side either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:54 am 
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Shimano 9000s for me. Have put thousands of miles on without any issues. Despite this forum being weight weenies, I think the tradeoff of slightly more weight is worth it in exchange for "never have to worry about them"

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:05 am 
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I've reviewed the Shimano 9100's.

Excellent. Fit and forget.

I love saving 25g as much as the next guy, but here it's just not worth it. Had a nightmare with Look Blades, never again.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:12 am 
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The bearing arrangement in Dura Ace pedals is phenomenal, and on a completely different level to all the other pretenders to the throne.

7900 and 9000 had the same arrangement; an outboard, adjustable cup and ball unit, a needle bearing sitting in the middle of the foot area, and a small self-aligning, sort of loose ball thrust bearing arrangement sitting at the outer end of the axle. This system is truly brilliant, and as we have all proven, you can ride these bloody things hard as hell, in all conditions, FOREVER, without a single thing happening to them, and without the need to adjust them. Regardless of the total lack of need to service, if you do need to, all you need is a 17mm and a 20mm cone spanner, some grease and the job is done. Combine this inspired bearing system with a super wide platform, a metal base plate that is basically impossible to wear out, adjustable release tension, cleats available anywhere, etc., and they really have to be the only choice. You could get Ultegra, or 105 ones and they would last just as long too.

The 9100 version have the needle bearing removed, and the replaceable foot base plate now part of the body (so you can't replace it). I am not sure what I think about the lack of needle bearing, and only time will tell if the remaining two bearings are enough... I hope they are, as I respect the design of the 7900 and 9000 and would love to see this as a positive evolutionary step, but there is a bit of a doubt there... The base plate; I am still using 7900s, and the base plate is still completely fine, so I don't actually think it needs to be replaceable.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:38 am 
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Really good summary of the "innards" of the Shimano pedals @TheDarkInstall. Interesting about the lack of a needle bearing in the newest version. Like you say, we'll see if that affects their long term durability. But for now, I'd agree that if you're looking for pedals that just work, and last, with good cleats that also last and provide decent "walkability", it's hard not to just hit buy on the Dura-Ace and move on to the next task.

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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:38 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:42 am 
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Calnago wrote:
Really good summary of the "innards" of the Shimano pedals @TheDarkInstall. Interesting about the lack of a needle bearing in the newest version. Like you say, we'll see if that affects their long term durability. But for now, I'd agree that if you're looking for pedals that just work, and last, with good cleats that also last and provide decent "walkability", it's hard not to just hit buy on the Dura-Ace and move on to the next task.


Ah, thanks :)

Here is a quick comparison of the models, going back to 7800. You can see that 7800, 7900 and 9000 all had basically the same arrangement, with 7900 and 9000 having exactly the same setup. 9100 is a change from this, as they have removed the needle bearing from the middle, and also the little retaining circlip bit (which was only used for making assembly easier, not anything structural). You can see they finally worked out how to use Blender for the 9100 pedal diagram too, bless them.

Really impressive design, and one which is proven to be seriously hard, smooth, and (very) long lasting.

Compare this level of work to the other makers who all just wang small cartridge bearings into poorly machined seats and hope for the best, with no way to adjust the preload etc. None of them come close to this.

Image

...now if only they could apply this level of work to their software :unbelievable:

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