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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 620
Been thinking about an NK1K frameset. Could any owners on her please let me know how the frame rides etc. Build quality and any niggles ? thanks very much


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Posts: 59
Location: NY
I recently bought and returned NK1K. It had the worst quality control ever.

My frame had a big, unsightly indent which looked as if it was caused by a molding process. (See the pic) I was willing to swallow it if everything else turned out okay, since the rest of the frame was aesthetically impeccable. But NO.

The worst thing was that the BB386 shell was so out of spec, I could just drop in Campy BB 386 cup into it without applying any force whatsoever. I didn't have to assemble the bike to tell that the frame was going to be a creaking machine. Loctite 609 could have filled up the gap, but I wasn't willing to take that chance on a $6k frame. For that kind of money, I expect perfection, which Cipollini simply didn't deliver. (BTW, the campy 386 cup measured 46.00mm on the dot with my caliper so it wasn't the culprit)

I think Cipollini QC department has a very lenient quality assurance guidelines. Maybe it's because the one-piece monocoque frames are costly to build and equally expensive to throw out when they fail QC, while bonding two triangles together can come out much more controlled and cheaper.


Attachments:
File comment: see the dent inside white circle?
DSC_2096.jpg
DSC_2096.jpg [ 3.9 KiB | Viewed 2249 times ]
File comment: Frame weight wasn't particularly charming, but hey, if you are considering a Cipollini, you know this going in.
P20161228_181427015_4C82D845-AA36-4B5E-B449-C480369A3E0E.jpg
P20161228_181427015_4C82D845-AA36-4B5E-B449-C480369A3E0E.jpg [ 4.43 KiB | Viewed 2249 times ]
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:31 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am
Posts: 665
The indented circle inside the white circle looks like they did not put on some attachment. I'm more concerned with the shape of the headtube and downtube. Nothing is smooth. Everything is dented and a mish-mash. Are you sure you did not beat this frame with a hammer before posting the picture? Even a mafia member working at the Cipollini factory would not have let that frame out the door.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Posts: 59
Location: NY
RussellS wrote:
Even a mafia member working at the Cipollini factory would not have let that frame out the door.


LOL that cracked me up.

That indent made me wonder if the frame was missing a Di2 port hole or something, but I had all the ports, so I guess maybe the frame mold included that hole for a reason, but somehow the frame design changed afterwards to not drilling a hole there. I can't assume anything at this point, so I'm just gonna say it's a cosmetic imperfection. However, if that indent was meant to be something, and they didn't correct the mold, now that's saying something about their forethought and quality overall.

Oh, and one more thing. The fork shape and the top of the downtube are too close, and shapes don't really match well. So the fork hits the where it meets the downtube at about 90 to 100 degree turn. I've seen pics of paint and possible frame cracking b/c of that.

Boy, am I glad I could return that frame without paying restocking fee!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece
Guys are you serious...?

@jwfinesse
See here:
Image
Image

All Cipollini frames are di2 ready. You can clearly see that this hole is intended for electronic transmission. It is just not opened up yet in your frame. Didn't your LBS tell you that? I wonder.

I could accept what you say about the bb but allow me to seriously doubt it...

@RussellS
I guess you are joking unless you cannot understand what design is at all.

@Lafolie
Have you read the reviews?:

http://road.cc/content/review/199274-ci ... k-frameset
"The NK1K is a pure performance machine that also happens to be stunning to look at, with a real focus on the details. "

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/technspec ... k1k-review
"I haven’t seen a bike that is so seamlessly perfect from tip to tail as a Cipollini, a testament to their commitment to set the bar exceptionally high."

_________________
My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 620
thanks guys......much appreciated


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Posts: 59
Location: NY
kgt wrote:
Guys are you serious...?

@jwfinesse

All Cipollini frames are di2 ready. You can clearly see that this hole is intended for electronic transmission. It is just not opened up yet in your frame. Didn't your LBS tell you that? I wonder.

I could accept what you say about the bb but allow me to seriously doubt it...



No, are YOU serious?
You want me to allow you to doubt that MY frame had a BB defect? So what are you implying, that I'm lying just to give Cipollini a bad name at my own expense? I could've been hit with the 15% restocking fee for returning, and I was even ready to face it to cut my loss as the frame was unusable. However, my LBS was kind enough to grant me full refund after watching me slip a bb cup right through the shell.

Well I guess I can't no longer prove it since I don't have the frame anymore. But I'm including the return receipt so I can at least give you the circumstantial evidence that I returned it without getting penalized for simple change-of-heart return. I know I can't convince you, KGT, but I'm writing this so other readers on this forum can judge for themselves.

Secondly, that indent there, as I thought, was SUPPOSED to be a electornic wire port, and some NK1K's do use that hole. But guess what? They never drilled it on mine. Even if that hole could be drilled to accommodate Di2, why haven't they drilled it? Cipollini wants end users to drill a 5mm sized hole on a $6,000 carbon frame? and they'd still honor that joke of a warranty, right? All the rest of my frames have EPS charging port pre-drilled and rubber plugged, not to mention some kind of wire port to facilitate Di2 grommet.

Image
Image

Above images I linked are from road.cc Nk1k review and a fellow user on this forum. See how the Di2 cables are set up? I guess their LBS failed to mention the magical port as well.

My NK1K frameset came with Di2 accommodating cable-stop to be used at the same location as images above, at the DS downtube where mechanical cable stop is. So clearly Cipollini's grand plan to use that toptube 'hole' has been scrapped for the frame I bought, and moved on to simply using the mechanical cable stop location. That indent now is a ugly by-product of not thinking the design through, or not changing the mold design even though the intended design has veered off.

I could still drill a hole in there and use it for Di2. However, if self-drilling a multi-thousand-dollar frame without worrying about warranty was an option, I would've put EPS on my Pegoretti ages ago, and that's a steel bike.


Attachments:
File comment: Attached a copy of my return receipt
unnamed.jpg
unnamed.jpg [ 4.01 KiB | Viewed 1956 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am
Posts: 665
kgt wrote:
Image


Thanks for posting the picture. It clearly shows there is not one smooth flowing line on the frame. Everything is mashed and scrunched. Who molds those frames to put creases and divots everywhere? Did they wrinkle up the cloth cover before putting it on? Wow.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 620
this is turning out to be very interesting indeed


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:48 am
Posts: 649
jwfinesse wrote:
kgt wrote:
Guys are you serious...?

@jwfinesse

All Cipollini frames are di2 ready. You can clearly see that this hole is intended for electronic transmission. It is just not opened up yet in your frame. Didn't your LBS tell you that? I wonder.

I could accept what you say about the bb but allow me to seriously doubt it...



No, are YOU serious?
You want me to allow you to doubt that MY frame had a BB defect? So what are you implying, that I'm lying just to give Cipollini a bad name at my own expense? I could've been hit with the 15% restocking fee for returning, and I was even ready to face it to cut my loss as the frame was unusable. However, my LBS was kind enough to grant me full refund after watching me slip a bb cup right through the shell.

Well I guess I can't no longer prove it since I don't have the frame anymore. But I'm including the return receipt so I can at least give you the circumstantial evidence that I returned it without getting penalized for simple change-of-heart return. I know I can't convince you, KGT, but I'm writing this so other readers on this forum can judge for themselves.

Secondly, that indent there, as I thought, was SUPPOSED to be a electornic wire port, and some NK1K's do use that hole. But guess what? They never drilled it on mine. Even if that hole could be drilled to accommodate Di2, why haven't they drilled it? Cipollini wants end users to drill a 5mm sized hole on a $6,000 carbon frame? and they'd still honor that joke of a warranty, right? All the rest of my frames have EPS charging port pre-drilled and rubber plugged, not to mention some kind of wire port to facilitate Di2 grommet.

Image
Image

Above images I linked are from road.cc Nk1k review and a fellow user on this forum. See how the Di2 cables are set up? I guess their LBS failed to mention the magical port as well.

My NK1K frameset came with Di2 accommodating cable-stop to be used at the same location as images above, at the DS downtube where mechanical cable stop is. So clearly Cipollini's grand plan to use that toptube 'hole' has been scrapped for the frame I bought, and moved on to simply using the mechanical cable stop location. That indent now is a ugly by-product of not thinking the design through, or not changing the mold design even though the intended design has veered off.

I could still drill a hole in there and use it for Di2. However, if self-drilling a multi-thousand-dollar frame without worrying about warranty was an option, I would've put EPS on my Pegoretti ages ago, and that's a steel bike.



I think for everybody's sake, that the point of this thread is that there will always be issues and flaws over handmade frames. Its an inevitable factor that can't be avoided and while 99% of those produced may be flawless, the remaining 1% will find their ways into the hands of customers. When that occurs and the flaws are realized, it truely is a disappointing experience and sometimes needs to be vented. We, as the audience should try to offer the best advice by logic rather than turning this into a inflammatory "you don't know what you're talking about" type of thread.

Jwfinesse, I for one am truly happy for you in that your LBS took the return....Judging by the sales tax, was it R&A?

_________________
There is no other way of guarding oneself against flattery than by letting men understand that they will not offend you by speaking the truth; but when everyone can tell you the truth, you lose their respect.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Posts: 59
Location: NY
@jimaizumi

As much as I'd like to tell you which shop has done right by me, I'd rather keep it undisclosed over the web so the shop doesn't get branded as "the place that carries a bad Cipollini in their inventory." Cause I honestly don't know if they sent it back to the distributor or not.

I'm gonna stay out of this one now if I'm making fellow forum users feel uncomfortable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4782
Manufacturing flaws can happen to any brand. That's why Quality Control exists... a pressfit bottom bracket shell that you can push the cups into by hand should not be allowed out the door, period. I personally would side with @jwfinesse on every issue he has pointed out. It would really bug me if a hole that was meant for a di2 cable was not drilled when I got the frame. And if they changed the design so that the hole was made redundant due to a new alternate routing, then please fix the mold so that a big indent isn't there for no reason, or fill it in before paint at the very least. Also, I have seen "Chinarello" frames at the headtube/fork crown area that would not clear the downtube in the event they were rotated 90 degrees. While it's true that you would never reach that degree in normal riding, it could easily happen in a crash, or even just a little spill or knockover. That's a design flaw imo, regardless of who's name is on the frame.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:25 am 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 1166
Sorry man, if you wanted quality control, you should've bought the $54000 luxury edition. Anything less just won't cut it.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 620
I wonder if this is why they have now moved frame production to Bosnia . So.......how does it ride ?????


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece
Obviously one can guide the di2 cables throught the top tube or the down tube. It's not that there is one 'correct' way to do it. That's why there are these two options. You see that there is not a hole in the down tube either, just a cover that can be drilled or not. So a toptube or downtube hole is drilled by the LBS only after the rider decides what he prefers. No? What do the instructions following the frame say?

I will not insist on the bb issue I just reacted that way because a design choise was presented as a manufacturing blemish.

Anyway, I am glad jthat wfinesse got a full refund. What was the LBS's reply btw?

P.S. RussellS, you 're stil joking, right?..

_________________
My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:03 pm 


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