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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:22 pm 
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Posts: 1474
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Re: 11 speed 12-29 Chorus cassette.

The lockring supplied has the very thin washer thingy sitting under the head, but tech doc suggests this is the lockring for use with 11up cassettes.

Are there two 11 speed lockrings - one for 11up and one for 12up?

If there is only one 11 speed lockring, tech doc supplied makes no mention of removing thin washer thingy.

In over 40 years of buying Camapg stuff they seem unable to get the most basic things right.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:59 pm 
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Posts: 1474
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Oh, I get it ...

There are actually four types of Campag 11 speed lockring. And of this, you will note that none of them actually come with the part no. marked on them.

And just to confuse people like me even further ... In the Tech Doc that comes with cassettes, the z11 lockring is drawn with the thin washer thingy, but the z12 lockring is drawn without.

GENIUS.


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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:59 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: Welland, Ontario
I already answered this in the other lockring thread, but don't go by me - just check p68 of the spares catalog where you find parts CS-112 for 12-13T and CS-111 for 11T. The same drawing for both, showing the thin captive washer.

http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_251_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo_2015_part_B.pdf

see the same thing here for sale

http://www.bikeman.com/Campagnolo_Cassette_Lockring.html

{USERNAME} wrote:
There are actually four types of Campag 11 speed lockring.


What are the 4 types of which you speak? I count 2 for 11-speed.

And 2 of the steel ones for 10-speed.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


Last edited by bikerjulio on Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1353
Location: UK
The 11 up lockring is smaller than the 12. Both 11s lockrings have the weraplate to protect the splines as the lockrings are aluminium.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Posts: 293
Location: Finland
I have never had any issues with the lock rings delivered with the campagnolo cassettes.

Could this be a dealer related issue? Did the cassette arrive with full packaging, etc. or did it look like the parts were collected and packaging was put together by the shop?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:05 pm 
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
So does CS-112 (z12) have the thin washer under the head, because in the Tech Doc it is drawn without it, while CS-111 (z11) is drawn with it?

The drawing in the Tech Doc is going to confuse people.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:07 pm 
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Thanks 585. Got my answer.

And there are two new steel 11 speed lockrings from 2017, I believe.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1353
Location: UK
9/10sp chromed steel
CS-401 12up
CS-501 11up

11sp aluminium with wearplate
CS-112 12up
CS-111 11up

To complicate matters they are releasing steel 11sp lockrings in 2017..... with wearplates
11sp aluminium with wearplate
CS-412 12up
CS-411 11up


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:13 pm 
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Location: UK
The CS-112 has a wearplate as it's aluminium. My catalogue shows it.

I wonder if the new steel versions will have wearplates? As you say sometimes the pictures don't tally up.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:54 pm 
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Location: Welland, Ontario
I did not know about the new ones for 2017.

I had a problem when I first installed an 11-spd Chorus cassette on my BMC. The lockring fouled the dropout.

While pondering the problem I noticed that the new alloy lockring was about 1 mm thicker than the older steel ones. Fitted a steel lockring and problem was solved.

So perhaps Campy are making the new ones skinnier.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:38 pm 
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Posts: 1353
Location: UK
bikerjulio, I've done the same thing as the 12up aluminium lockring is quite chunky.

The think the additional steel lockrings are due to cost savings. They are doing to be supplied with the Campagnolo
"Sprockets" cassette that's part of the Potenza and Athena groupsets.

I would assume they'll be thinner due to being steel and could be used for extra clearance.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1353
Location: UK
Valbrona wrote:
Oh, I get it ...

There are actually four types of Campag 11 speed lockring. And of this, you will note that none of them actually come with the part no. marked on them.

And just to confuse people like me even further ... In the Tech Doc that comes with cassettes, the z11 lockring is drawn with the thin washer thingy, but the z12 lockring is drawn without.

GENIUS.



The old 9/10sp lockrings just had the logo and torque but in recent years they have the part no. on.

The 11sp 12up doesn't have a part number but the 11sp 11up is marked z11.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:23 pm 
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Posts: 274
Location: UK
Valbrona wrote:
Oh, I get it ...

There are actually four types of Campag 11 speed lockring. And of this, you will note that none of them actually come with the part no. marked on them.

And just to confuse people like me even further ... In the Tech Doc that comes with cassettes, the z11 lockring is drawn with the thin washer thingy, but the z12 lockring is drawn without.

GENIUS.


You are trying to over-think this.

There are two lockrings in alloy, two for the new 11s unranged cassette, in steel, for 11s.

Campagnolo occasionally introduce a running change where they don't necessarily prepare new drawings for it in the tech docs - the tech docs are mostly targetted at competent, trained mechanics and the training that is now offered includes detailed points around those running changes.

If the lockring is 11s for 11T top sprocket (marked Z-11) and it has an integral shim washer (you have to try to remove it, it won't fall off spontaneously unless damaged) Use this lockring, as supplied, for 11s with 11T top.

If the lockring is 11s for 12T (or 13T) top sprocket, no differentiator marked - again, use it for what it was intended for, without modification.

The new steel 11T lockrings are designed specifically for use with the new Cassette with alloy spacers and so have a longer threaded portion and are marked with the increased torque setting of 50 nm, specific to the new cassettes. Again they are marked either z-11, or have no marking for top sprocket size. Again, use unmodified, as indicated.

Where there are occasionally problems (and it's one of the many reasons that it's contractually forbidden for OEM to sell into the aftermarket) is if an OEM sends a bunch of cassettes out with the wrong lockrings, as they are seperately packaged in some cases. This is unlikely to apply with Chorus and upwards because pacakging is normally in individual boxes, even at OEM.

_________________
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 596
as a contrast, I've yet to use a non shimano locking in my Shimano compatible set-ups. Both a SRAM and Edco lockings were so damn tight treading into the body I was afraid I was going to destroy the threads. Took them out and installed Shimano instead - happy times.


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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:36 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 596
spud wrote:
as a contrast, I've yet to use a non shimano locking in my Shimano compatible set-ups. Both a SRAM and Edco lockings were so damn tight threading into the body I was afraid I was going to destroy the body. Took them out and installed Shimano instead - happy times.


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