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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:32 am 
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Thanks for that, I was assuming it was for getting the correct preload and/or removing play, none of which have plagued me, so haven't looked into this in detail.

To be honest I used a decent amount of loctite during initial setup (based on my previous experience with pressfit installs...), so those cups are not going anywhere fast, which according to your explanation would be the reason why I'm not having any issues running things without the washer?

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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:32 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:58 pm 
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wingguy wrote:
DMF wrote:
We've had some issues at my shop where people have bought bikes online, used or tried to install it by themselves, without a wavy washer then, with creaks coming from the NDS side cup wiggling loose.

And you/they never checked the product manual while trying to fix it? :noidea:

I feel pretty strongly that a big part of what makes a good mechanic good is finding out the details of the parts they work on. There is no level of innate technical skill that can compensate for learning how each specific component is supposed to work.


Yeah, I'm sorry but in the real world a bike mechanic sometimes have way to much work on their hands on any particular day to look these things up. And to be honest none of the, if I remember correctly three times, has the bike in question actually been in to the shop for that problem but it had been noted that this was happening, but the bike was only in for something like a new chain or a fresh set of bar tape... In real life there isn't time to go that extra mile on these occasions in the middle of busy season.

I do ofcourse wish I had control over my own time, but I'm the mechanic, not the boss.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:28 pm 
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All I can say is wow. I just don't get this. If you put a manufactured product together, there is a correct method. If one isn't certain of the correct method, isn't the next step to learn the correct method? Followed by the attempt to install/assemble? We all make errors but.... :noidea:

Not picking on DMF, I see this everywhere in the bike industry. The cable work on my wife's winter bike which was bought from an LBS was so bad I had to laugh. Now I know why I built a full bike repair shop in my house.

So yes, always wave washer with GXP, unless the supplier of the BB says no. Also there are different gauges of wave washer, some stiff, some lighter and more flexible. Again the manufacturer of the BB should supply the correct one.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:46 pm 
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What you need to recognise is that this is assemblies by either factory or the customer him/herself. Yes, bikes come assembled the wrong way from factory.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:54 pm 
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DMF wrote:
Yeah, I'm sorry but in the real world a bike mechanic sometimes have way to much work on their hands on any particular day to look these things up. And to be honest none of the, if I remember correctly three times, has the bike in question actually been in to the shop for that problem but it had been noted that this was happening,

OK - you know what's quicker than doing something wrong three times? Doing it right once. Not having time to look up the the correct way to work on products you are unfamiliar with is crap mechanicing and crap shop management. If you don't have time to do the job properly you don't have time to do it at all.

Remember that in the real world your name is on the job sheet that the bike leaves with. If anything goes wrong with a bike out on the road or trail because you didn't find out how to put something together properly it's not just the shop that's liable, you are as well. You need to keep that in mind and find some gumption to stand up to your boss and take some control over the job diary. Being unable or unwilling to do that isn't an excuse for doing bad work.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:10 pm 
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Good Jesus... Did you really not read the part where the bike wasn't in the shop for the creaking problem, only for a new chain or perhaps a new bar tape. You really need to grasp the economic realities of working as a mechanic in a large shop doing maybe 60-70 bikes a week, in contrast to being a hobby internet mechanic... A "new chain customer" isn't getting 40mins of free detective work (unless it's a VIP), that's just the economic reality of mainstream/mid-end bike shops.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:12 pm 
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Some of this is driven by economics. It is great to find highly conscientious workers in all fields, but at the wage level that many modest retailers pay, and the prices charged to customers, there just won't be consistent quality.

The owners/managers of the shops themselves are also responsible for failing to establish an organizational culture where only excellent work is acceptable. It can be done - you just have to know how to run a business, train your people, etc.

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wheelsONfire wrote:
When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:29 pm 
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DMF wrote:
Good Jesus... Did you really not read the part where the bike wasn't in the shop for the creaking problem.

I did, and if that's all you wrote I'd have let it go. But it wasn't all you wrote - you also said that in general you don't have time to read manuals.

This is inexcusable.

Quote:
You really need to grasp the economic realities of working as a mechanic in a large shop doing maybe 60-70 bikes a week

I don't know where you work, but I'd say I'm about 98% sure that I work in a bigger shop than you. This means that I am also aware of the economic realities of dealing with entirely avoidable *f##k* ups from people who thought they were too good to need to read the literature.

I've also worked in shops that, while still under pressure, value the development of their staff and the worth of proper training and I've worked in shops that think a Cytech means you should be ready to work flat out on anything and everything that comes through the door. The latter is not a good environment to work in and it will poison your outlook on the profession as a whole and your own professionalism in particular.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:02 pm 
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That's right, i really don't have the time to read manuals for problems that I'm not currently repairing. Yes I also do lots of training, courses and whatnot. But you really are asking me to have read every manual there is in beforehand. Anything less is inexcusable?

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