old steel frame conversion to new groupset
Moderator: robbosmans
Hi all,
My brother has an old (mid 80's) steel frame malvern star and wants to install a new groupset on it to get rid of the suicide shifters.
He will probably go with Campy Veloce but not quite sure what needs to be done with the BB. I assume it is english thread BB but I'm not sure that the new style of BB will fit.
What needs to be done for the new BB to fit?
My brother has an old (mid 80's) steel frame malvern star and wants to install a new groupset on it to get rid of the suicide shifters.
He will probably go with Campy Veloce but not quite sure what needs to be done with the BB. I assume it is english thread BB but I'm not sure that the new style of BB will fit.
What needs to be done for the new BB to fit?
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As long as it's either a 68mm british threaded bottom bracket or a 70mm italian (unlikely) bottom brackets are easily available for a veloce power torque chainset.
http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-power- ... cup-set-1/
If it's some odd bottom bracket thread, you might be stuffed. (But an 80's steel road frame is pretty much going to be 68 or 70mm.)
http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-power- ... cup-set-1/
If it's some odd bottom bracket thread, you might be stuffed. (But an 80's steel road frame is pretty much going to be 68 or 70mm.)
- bikerjulio
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- Location: Welland, Ontario
There's no such thing as a "standard" BB any more. Not that there ever was one, but even less so today.
The BB cups linked are for a Campagnolo Powertorque crank which is what Veloce is.
You will of course also need new wheels with Campy compatible hubs. I'd suggest more research before you decide whether or not this exercise is worthwhile.
The BB cups linked are for a Campagnolo Powertorque crank which is what Veloce is.
You will of course also need new wheels with Campy compatible hubs. I'd suggest more research before you decide whether or not this exercise is worthwhile.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?
One.
So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM
How many drivers does a buggy have?
One.
So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM
How many speeds on this bike now? How wide is the rear triangle? 130mm is the current standard. This bike is probably 126mm or 120mm. The rear end would need to be stretched and aligned by a shop.
You might want to add it all up and see if it's worth it. A modern bike with 105 can be had for relatively cheap. What frame is this?
You might want to add it all up and see if it's worth it. A modern bike with 105 can be had for relatively cheap. What frame is this?
- bikerjulio
- Posts: 1900
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
- Location: Welland, Ontario
English threading and a 68 mm wide shell have thankfully remained constant for many years. So yes, those cups will fit.
What we are gently trying to tell you is that it might not be worth spending this kind of money on a cheap mass-produced steel frame. Which Wiki indicates it most probably is. Check it out.
What we are gently trying to tell you is that it might not be worth spending this kind of money on a cheap mass-produced steel frame. Which Wiki indicates it most probably is. Check it out.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?
One.
So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM
How many drivers does a buggy have?
One.
So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM
- dadoflam08
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Don't listen to them - no-one North of the equator will understand the love for a 20kg 10 speed Malvern Star Superstar! - Look forward to seeing the end result. I am myself trying to track down a used Superstar XL (approx. cost $40) so I can spend a ridiculous amount of time and money restoring it for this year's Melburn Roobaix event.
'83 De Rosa+'11 Baum Corretto+'08 BMC Pro Machine >6kg+'86 Pinarello Team +'72 Cinelli SC +'58 Bianchi+'71 Cinelli SC+'78 Masi GC+'83 La Redoute Motobecane+'94 Banesto Pegoretti+'88 Bianchi X4 +'48 Super Elliott+'99 Look Kg281+'18 Pegoretti
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Get 8/9spd rear mech, cassette, sti (right at least), Decent saddle and that's it. Makes no sense to throw new grouppo on, unless its some sort of fancy steel (SLX/EL etc.)
A quick check suggests 9sp Sora groupsets at £200 online, Veloce 10sp for £300, so it's not a huge investment as such. But the OP will definitely need that rear triangle to be set at 130mm and new bars/stem/saddle will be very tempting to match the new wheels so it is beginning to look like too much money invested in the frame. Spending the same money on a completely new bike might give a more satisfying result and eliminate the assembly work.
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If someone likes the look of a vintage frame and owns the bike already, the cost to add a new groupset is at least on par with the cost of a new bike with slightly lesser component spec even factoring in wheels. It is quite rare for a bike anywhere near the price of a Veloce group and basic wheels to have the full group and decent wheels.
And yes it is 'work' but for myself working on bikes is some of the most fun 'work' I do.
Finally, if the triangle is 126mm to start there is no need to cold set the frame for a 130mm hub. It will slight right in with a slight tug on the chainstays. My 1984 Trek 660 with full 105 5800 group still has its 126mm rear spacing. A 120mm frame would require cold setting but that can be done at home with some basic tools if one is so inclined.
And yes it is 'work' but for myself working on bikes is some of the most fun 'work' I do.
Finally, if the triangle is 126mm to start there is no need to cold set the frame for a 130mm hub. It will slight right in with a slight tug on the chainstays. My 1984 Trek 660 with full 105 5800 group still has its 126mm rear spacing. A 120mm frame would require cold setting but that can be done at home with some basic tools if one is so inclined.
Yep, no need to coldset if it's a 126mm frame.
I redid an old Ricardo elite frame (badged as a Durban bicycle shop ) with (current) 10s veloce. Used an ultratorque Centaur crank instead as I didn't want to mess around with powertorque. Also had an issue with the rear brake as it was drilled for the old style where you stick a nut on the back of the brake bridge and I couldnt fit a sunken nut in.
I coldset it myself out to 130mm in a really messy way, then made a frame alignment gauge (youtube) and realigned the dropouts and hanger. Probably not worth it.
I redid an old Ricardo elite frame (badged as a Durban bicycle shop ) with (current) 10s veloce. Used an ultratorque Centaur crank instead as I didn't want to mess around with powertorque. Also had an issue with the rear brake as it was drilled for the old style where you stick a nut on the back of the brake bridge and I couldnt fit a sunken nut in.
I coldset it myself out to 130mm in a really messy way, then made a frame alignment gauge (youtube) and realigned the dropouts and hanger. Probably not worth it.
Chasse patate
Have you already purchased the Campy Veloce? that seems kind of expensive for that class of bike. Why not consider Shimano Claris? If the bike frame was worth more than a $1,000 I could sort of see it, but everywhere I looked on the internet I could find those frames with the components and wheels for under $100, so I would be concerned spending that kind of money for Veloce for that bike when Claris would be more than fine.
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froze wrote:so I would be concerned spending that kind of money for Veloce for that bike when Claris would be more than fine.
Veloce is a lot classier looking than Claris, and has two more cogs in the rear. For the tiny difference in price, and assuming one has Campy wheels, Veloce would be my choice, too. And I have nothing against Claris. It's a great group and fitting for an entry level bike, but there's better out there for not much more.
And I'm not sure why it matters how much one spends on a groupset for a particular frame. The groupset can always be moved to another frame. It's not like he's spending $400 on a paint job for this bike. My Trek 660 cost me $195 and I put 105 5800 on it plus Ritchey Classic stem, seatpost, and handlebars. Considering that I sold the original groupset off the Trek for $150, I spent way more on upgrades for the frame than it cost me (net $45 + ~$600 in upgrades not including the wheels which I had as spares). It's one of my favorite bikes now.
joejack951 wrote:froze wrote:so I would be concerned spending that kind of money for Veloce for that bike when Claris would be more than fine.
Veloce is a lot classier looking than Claris, and has two more cogs in the rear. For the tiny difference in price, and assuming one has Campy wheels, Veloce would be my choice, too. And I have nothing against Claris. It's a great group and fitting for an entry level bike, but there's better out there for not much more.
And I'm not sure why it matters how much one spends on a groupset for a particular frame. The groupset can always be moved to another frame. It's not like he's spending $400 on a paint job for this bike. My Trek 660 cost me $195 and I put 105 5800 on it plus Ritchey Classic stem, seatpost, and handlebars. Considering that I sold the original groupset off the Trek for $150, I spent way more on upgrades for the frame than it cost me (net $45 + ~$600 in upgrades not including the wheels which I had as spares). It's one of my favorite bikes now.
In all honesty for a vintage bike I would find 80's era groupset on E-bay, that would be more classic looking than modern Veloce, but that's just me.
Yeah, he could always sell the Veloce, OR transfer it to a more modern frame later.
By the way this is the best price I could find on Veloce: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/campagnol ... -groupset/
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