Colnago Master X-Light (new 2016 model) sizing

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3Pio
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by 3Pio

Hi there.. If i ride Colnago C60 in 50S size (big headset cone, 12-15mm spacers under the stem, and -7 degrees 110 stem), what would be ideal size of Colnago Master X-Light (2016 version)?

As first i thought that it would be 54, but i can see much shorter headtube compared to my C60, and there is nowhere stack info for Master.. Any help about this?

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mrgray
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by mrgray

i've looked into this myself and whilst i cannot specifically answer your question it seems to me that you're headed for a spacer tower or flipped stem. very racer geo on these.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

The reason the Master has a much shorter headtube than is due to the fact it takes an external headset, which is not included in the headtube length. Versus the C60 where the headset is included in the headtube length. For instance a Chris King headset will have a total stack height of (if I remember correctly, please check to make sure) around 29mm. So, add around 3cm to the headtube height of a Master if you want to compare to the headtube of a C60. Make sense? Then adjust for you using the tall headset cover of 15mm versus the Chris King (or whatever brand you go with) cover, which will likely be less than 15mm, more like 7mm probably. Starting to get the idea?
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3Pio
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by 3Pio

Calnago wrote:The reason the Master has a much shorter headtube than is due to the fact it takes an external headset, which is not included in the headtube length. Versus the C60 where the headset is included in the headtube length. For instance a Chris King headset will have a total stack height of (if I remember correctly, please check to make sure) around 29mm. So, add around 3cm to the headtube height of a Master if you want to compare to the headtube of a C60. Make sense? Then adjust for you using the tall headset cover of 15mm versus the Chris King (or whatever brand you go with) cover, which will likely be less than 15mm, more like 7mm probably. Starting to get the idea?



Thanks.. Now it's much more clear. Later i'll google more details so compare it to my 50S but seem that im 54 or 55 cm Master

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kgt
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by kgt

Just compare the length of the top tubes.

3Pio
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by 3Pio

kgt wrote:Just compare the length of the top tubes.



It's not that simple.. I totaly forgot that headset is external, so Calnago explain prety well what i should caluculate. U can't be based just on top tube length becase For example if u compare C60 in 55 size trad and Master in 55 size, they also have difference in SeatPost Angle (73.5 and 74.1 degrees) . So i compare all values not just top tube in this order:

STACK (HeadTube length)

SeatPost Angle

Top Tube length

Anyway, for me would be 54 or 55 depend how many spacers i want under the stem, and what kind of handlebar i plan to ride (reach, drop...)

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kgt
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by kgt

I see sc angle is 74 degrees for both. Do I miss something?

Zakalwe
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by Zakalwe

I'd go 55 if you wanted a broadly similar frame size, or 56 if you intended to build it properly with a -17d stem.

3Pio
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by 3Pio

kgt wrote:I see sc angle is 74 degrees for both. Do I miss something?
Ok, time to restart this thread again... :)

Im lusting for Master X-Light long time ago, and i was even considering when i was buying my C60..

I must say that in the moment i started this thread i was not ready for order, but still knew it that probaby time will come in the future.. So future is now :)

Also in last few months was thinking to buy Ritchey Road Logic, but i realized that im really lusting about Master..

Also just to tell u that this build wont be some classic build for a sunday coffee ride, but ill build it with modern components, and will ride it same way, same routes as i do my C60.


Probably something like this:


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=143291&p=1365688#p1365688

In last season i have about 10000 km and probably will end with 125000 meters climb. A lot of grand fondos (more then 100 km) and few more then 200 km rides as well (maximum this season was 250km). (just for information what kind of riding ill do it..)

So let's go about sizing..

In this moment im riding C60 in 50S with this setup based on my Rettul fitting 18 mnths ago (lost about 6-7 kgs since then):

110mm -7 deg stem

15mm headset cup

10 mm spacers under the stem (probably i can go 2mm less)
And this is one change i done after Rettul. They suggested 15mm 18 months, but i was 78 kgs then, now im about 71-72kgs. Even they suggested 15mm then, i realized is too much, so i was riding with 12mm spacers..

52mm setback, 727mm bb to top of the saddle

Handlebar is Easton EC90SLX 75mm reach, 130 mm drop, 40cm hoods/ 42 cm droops.


Ok, i understund how to compare headtube length of Master and C60 (thanks @Calnago and @KGT), and if i want to copy position of my bike i guess i need to go 54 size Master (based on top tube length, and seatpost angle)

Head tube of my C60 is 145mm + 15mm big headset cup + 10 mm spacers = Handlebar height position (170mm)

Master will come with Colnago Headset:

https://www.bikebug.com/colnago-master- ... 40569.html

https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/componen ... set-p12480

And headtube length of Master in 54 is 117mm

So im adding 14mm lower headset stack + upper headset stack of 14mm = 117+28= 145mm + 11mm headset cup = 156mm. If i want to get same handlebar position as mine C60 i'll need to add 14mm spacers under the stem.

And can someone comfirm me if i got the right numbers for Colnago Headset (14mm lower+14mm upper + 11mm headset cup)

So where is confusion? I was reading this link:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/colnago.shtml

And many others, where they claim that if u want to feel real Colnago handling, they are designed to be used with longer stem, otherwise will feel a bit slow.. Im wondering if i need to go one size smaller to shorten the reach of the frame, so to use a bit longer stem (120mm) and maybe improve what i have now in term of handling (and maybe comfort).

I contacted Colnago, and few shops where im interested to possible buy the frame.. Colnago suggest 54cm frame (no info about stem length), one shop suggest 54cm frame with 120mm stem, the other two shops 53 cm size (also no stem suggestion which is normal, since that will be dialed at the end..).

If i go 53 cm frame, head tube length will be: 108mm

So 108mm headtube + 14mm lower part of headset + 14mm upper part of headset + 11mm headset cup = 147mm which mean to have same handlebar position as i have now i'll need 23mm spacers under the stem (not sure if the reach is a bit shorter here, that maybe i can go a bit lower. And also as i said i feel that maybe i can go 2mm lower even now).

So maybe a bit too much spacers..


Im providing here my Rettul fitting, and also some measurements i have done when i was deciding should i go C60 or Specialissima, so i got measured by Bianchi dealer and also my friend (dont know which one is correct).

My Rettul:

Image

Measurements (dont know which one is correct):

Image

Image

Also made few side pics from last ride (not sure if this is real position, since i was standing still to be able to make this photos). Also consider that it was under 0 degrees, so winter baselayer, winter jersey (full pockets), then winter jacket (full pockets as well)

Im 175cm, and 71-72 kg in this moment, and 42 years old (planing to keep this bike longer time ,5 years min, but probably i would never sell it...)

Image

Image


Image

Image


So which size u think will be the correct size this time?

53cm (chance for longer stem, but about 21-23mm spacers) or 54 cm (12-14mm spacers) or some other suggestions?


Thanks....

Also i promise that whole build i'll post it here..And not just one Master.. Two of them.. Since also my friend is ordering together with me (he is also riding C60 in 55 trad)

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by KarlC

Zakalwe wrote:I'd go 55 if you wanted a broadly similar frame size, or 56 if you intended to build it properly with a -17d stem.
Yes this ..... Here is my 56 with -17d stem .....


Image20170826_185116_resized (002) by https://www.flickr.com/photos/152286819@N02/, on Flickr
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crn
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by crn

If it helps this is (was) my Master 54 (1993) and my C60 48s in comparison:

Image

I'm 176cm and I could go for C60 50s with 110mm stem but I choose 48s wth 120mm stem for shorter headset (not using any spacers under the stem). Since you are sitting pretty tall on your C60 I'd recommend to go for 54cm frame.
Last edited by crn on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

3Pio
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

KarlC wrote:
Zakalwe wrote:I'd go 55 if you wanted a broadly similar frame size, or 56 if you intended to build it properly with a -17d stem.
Yes this ..... Here is my 56 with -17d stem .....


Image20170826_185116_resized (002) by https://www.flickr.com/photos/152286819@N02/, on Flickr
Very nice bike...

Still, i want to be as close as possible to Colnago fitting recommandation.. If i go bigger frame to be able to ride -17 deg, that mean i'll need even shorter stem, and i really want to use this bike same way as my C60...

And can u please tell me what kind of headset u use? Is this Campagnolo threadless?

And please measure for me lower part of headset, then upper part and cup on the top of headset (and bellowe the spacers).

Thanks a lot

3Pio
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by 3Pio

crn wrote:If it helps this is (was) my Master 54 (1993) and my C60 48s in comparison:

Image

I'm 176cm and I could go for C60 50s with 110mm stem but I choose 48s wth 120mm stem for shorter headset (not using any spacers under the stem). Since you are sitting pretty tall on your C60 I'd recommend to go for 54cm frame.
Both very nice bikes.. What is ur inseam , and what is ur bb-top of the saddle height?

Im 175cm, and about 82 cm inseam... 72.7cm bb-top of the saddle

crn
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by crn

3Pio wrote: Both very nice bikes.. What is ur inseam , and what is ur bb-top of the saddle height?

Im 175cm, and about 82 cm inseam... 72.7cm bb-top of the saddle
176cm / 83cm inseam and 73cm saddle height

This is final setup using -8deg 120mm
Image

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3Pio
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by 3Pio

crn wrote:
3Pio wrote: Both very nice bikes.. What is ur inseam , and what is ur bb-top of the saddle height?

Im 175cm, and about 82 cm inseam... 72.7cm bb-top of the saddle
176cm / 83cm inseam and 73cm saddle height

This is final setup using -8deg 120mm
Image

So we are very simillar height/inseam..

But seem that u have better flexibility than i have.. I u were using 50S frameset C60 with 110mm stem.. I guess no spacers and small headset cup for that size?

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