Race Clincher Tyre

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
sawyer
Posts: 4460
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Turbo Cotton with latex is obviously the fastest, if more expensive and fragile

If going Conti (and it's a good choice) then as a faster alternative to the GP4000S2, consider the Supersonic (much thinner) or the GP Force (24mm and a fraction thinner)
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

by Weenie


oldturd
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:10 am

by oldturd

Looking for Turbo Cottons myself.. can anyone recommend good vendors?

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tochnics
Posts: 1155
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:02 pm
Location: around amsterdam

by tochnics

turbo s are nice
cannot recommend them for durability
they seem to cut easy
Join the light side

a light bike does make you go faster unless you are slow

c60rider
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.

cmcdonnell
Posts: 258
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm

by cmcdonnell

Got a set of Specialized Turbo Cottons 24mm's on at the moment and have done over 2000 miles so far. They come up at 25mm on my 17C Bora's. They feel lovely. Very smooth and much better on all surfaces than my go to GP4000’s and also feel more comfortable at the same time.

Also tried Michelin Power Competitions but didn't like them for various reasons and also Specialized S-Works.

I only use 23 (24) mm tyres which always seem to come up between 24 and 26 mm on the 17C Bora's.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

morganb
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

c60rider wrote:The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.

There are plenty of racing rims with substantially wider internal widths, the newer Roval wheels, ENVEs, Bontrager Aeolus. I don't think I regularly ride any wheels under 19.5mm internal width any more.

Torchy
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:23 pm

by Torchy

caad4rep wrote:Continental Grand Prix 4000s


same for me - quality tyre.

TiCass
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm

by TiCass

My wheelset in 27mm external and 19mm internal... should I buy 24mm or 26mm Specialized Turbo Cotton?

romalor
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:56 pm

by romalor

26 mm
even pros use 26 mm on wide rims
not less aero and better rolling resistance

Specialized 24 mm are more like 23 mm from others brands
Specialized 26 mm are more like 25 mm from others brands

c60rider
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

morganb wrote:
c60rider wrote:The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.

There are plenty of racing rims with substantially wider internal widths, the newer Roval wheels, ENVEs, Bontrager Aeolus. I don't think I regularly ride any wheels under 19.5mm internal width any more.


The fashion in recent years is to go wider and that is the perception for a lot of the consumers that wider is faster. Only if coupled with the right tyre. A C15 with a 23mm tyre is no different than a C17 and a 25mm if comparing the profile of the tyre and rim. Too wide a tyre on a rim causes it to lightbulb so losing the aerodynamic effect. Which is why a 23mm Conti or Vittoria (measures at 25mm+) fits so well with a C17. A Conti/Vittoria 25mm (which measure over 27mm) starts to lightbulb. But then you can start to mistake larger tyres having a greater volume of air in them, thereby being able to run them at lower pressure and that being more comfortable and feeling faster. So for training comfort is possibly the priority over speed so a bigger tyre is always better but if it's outright speed you're after, and if you're racing that's what you want, then comfort is sacrificed a little for the aerodynamic benefits. Otherwise you would see the pros running 40mm tyres and mountain bike rims at Paris-Roubaix. They only really go up to 26/28mm tubs but then you can't compare clinchers and tubs at all when it comes to rim width and the effect on tyres. Rim width has no effect on how wide a tub is but has a huge effect on the profile of a clincher. Bigger internal width of rims need bigger tyres to maximise those aero benefits.
This article that's been used here before explains it far better than I ever can https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04/03/best-wider-road-bike-tires-wheel-sizes/
I think the differences we're getting with a certain rim width, tyre width, pressure and so on are far less significant than the manufacturers would have us believe. Anything to get us to buy the latest as if what we're currently using is now no good.
Last edited by c60rider on Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

spdntrxi
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

sd5500 wrote:Turbo Cottons with latex tubes! they come in 24 and 26. I raced the 24s on my 4.5s all year. No flats, cuts, and high miles.

Yep ... my setup exactly

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kgt
Posts: 6717
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Veloflex

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themidge
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

by themidge

+1 for veloflex
I've had my master 25s for a few months now and they've been great. I don't know if they are but they certainly feel faster than the tyres I had before (hutchinson equinox 2)
:hello:
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rossjm11
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:09 pm

by rossjm11

S-Works Turbo Cotton 26mm, you will not regret it
BMC SLR01 2015
Redline Conquest Team

by Weenie


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mpulsiv
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

c60rider wrote:
morganb wrote:
c60rider wrote:The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.

There are plenty of racing rims with substantially wider internal widths, the newer Roval wheels, ENVEs, Bontrager Aeolus. I don't think I regularly ride any wheels under 19.5mm internal width any more.


The fashion in recent years is to go wider and that is the perception for a lot of the consumers that wider is faster. Only if coupled with the right tyre. A C15 with a 23mm tyre is no different than a C17 and a 25mm if comparing the profile of the tyre and rim. Too wide a tyre on a rim causes it to lightbulb so losing the aerodynamic effect. Which is why a 23mm Conti or Vittoria (measures at 25mm+) fits so well with a C17. A Conti/Vittoria 25mm (which measure over 27mm) starts to lightbulb. But then you can start to mistake larger tyres having a greater volume of air in them, thereby being able to run them at lower pressure and that being more comfortable and feeling faster. So for training comfort is possibly the priority over speed so a bigger tyre is always better but if it's outright speed you're after, and if you're racing that's what you want, then comfort is sacrificed a little for the aerodynamic benefits. Otherwise you would see the pros running 40mm tyres and mountain bike rims at Paris-Roubaix. They only really go up to 26/28mm tubs but then you can't compare clinchers and tubs at all when it comes to rim width and the effect on tyres. Rim width has no effect on how wide a tub is but has a huge effect on the profile of a clincher. Bigger internal width of rims need bigger tyres to maximise those aero benefits.
This article that's been used here before explains it far better than I ever can https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04/03/best-wider-road-bike-tires-wheel-sizes/
I think the differences we're getting with a certain rim width, tyre width, pressure and so on are far less significant than the manufacturers would have us believe. Anything to get us to buy the latest as if what we're currently using is now no good.


What aerodynamic effect? Per data from wind tunnel, wider tire (e.g. light bulb effect) is sure-footed with less rolling resistance, lower tire pressure is ~1 watt slower. Unless you are a Cat 1/pro chasing podium, ~1 watt is utterly meaningless. Every time you pull a water bottle out and take a sip, you penalize yourself with ~ 15 watts.

Keep in mind that, 95 % of road cyclists don't even race! I find it humerous as to why riders mimic pros and train on pure race machines with deep carbon wheels and narrow tires.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

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