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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4423
Location: Natovi Landing
Turbo Cotton with latex is obviously the fastest, if more expensive and fragile

If going Conti (and it's a good choice) then as a faster alternative to the GP4000S2, consider the Supersonic (much thinner) or the GP Force (24mm and a fraction thinner)

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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:51 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:10 am
Posts: 61
Looking for Turbo Cottons myself.. can anyone recommend good vendors?


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 1155
Location: around amsterdam
turbo s are nice
cannot recommend them for durability
they seem to cut easy

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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm
Posts: 103
The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm
Posts: 254
Got a set of Specialized Turbo Cottons 24mm's on at the moment and have done over 2000 miles so far. They come up at 25mm on my 17C Bora's. They feel lovely. Very smooth and much better on all surfaces than my go to GP4000’s and also feel more comfortable at the same time.

Also tried Michelin Power Competitions but didn't like them for various reasons and also Specialized S-Works.

I only use 23 (24) mm tyres which always seem to come up between 24 and 26 mm on the 17C Bora's.

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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm
Posts: 273
c60rider wrote:
The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.

There are plenty of racing rims with substantially wider internal widths, the newer Roval wheels, ENVEs, Bontrager Aeolus. I don't think I regularly ride any wheels under 19.5mm internal width any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:23 pm
Posts: 10
caad4rep wrote:
Continental Grand Prix 4000s


same for me - quality tyre.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm
Posts: 24
My wheelset in 27mm external and 19mm internal... should I buy 24mm or 26mm Specialized Turbo Cotton?


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:56 pm
Posts: 215
26 mm
even pros use 26 mm on wide rims
not less aero and better rolling resistance

Specialized 24 mm are more like 23 mm from others brands
Specialized 26 mm are more like 25 mm from others brands


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm
Posts: 103
morganb wrote:
c60rider wrote:
The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.

There are plenty of racing rims with substantially wider internal widths, the newer Roval wheels, ENVEs, Bontrager Aeolus. I don't think I regularly ride any wheels under 19.5mm internal width any more.


The fashion in recent years is to go wider and that is the perception for a lot of the consumers that wider is faster. Only if coupled with the right tyre. A C15 with a 23mm tyre is no different than a C17 and a 25mm if comparing the profile of the tyre and rim. Too wide a tyre on a rim causes it to lightbulb so losing the aerodynamic effect. Which is why a 23mm Conti or Vittoria (measures at 25mm+) fits so well with a C17. A Conti/Vittoria 25mm (which measure over 27mm) starts to lightbulb. But then you can start to mistake larger tyres having a greater volume of air in them, thereby being able to run them at lower pressure and that being more comfortable and feeling faster. So for training comfort is possibly the priority over speed so a bigger tyre is always better but if it's outright speed you're after, and if you're racing that's what you want, then comfort is sacrificed a little for the aerodynamic benefits. Otherwise you would see the pros running 40mm tyres and mountain bike rims at Paris-Roubaix. They only really go up to 26/28mm tubs but then you can't compare clinchers and tubs at all when it comes to rim width and the effect on tyres. Rim width has no effect on how wide a tub is but has a huge effect on the profile of a clincher. Bigger internal width of rims need bigger tyres to maximise those aero benefits.
This article that's been used here before explains it far better than I ever can https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04/03/best-wider-road-bike-tires-wheel-sizes/
I think the differences we're getting with a certain rim width, tyre width, pressure and so on are far less significant than the manufacturers would have us believe. Anything to get us to buy the latest as if what we're currently using is now no good.


Last edited by c60rider on Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm
Posts: 1178
sd5500 wrote:
Turbo Cottons with latex tubes! they come in 24 and 26. I raced the 24s on my 4.5s all year. No flats, cuts, and high miles.

Yep ... my setup exactly


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6661
Location: Athens, Greece
Veloflex

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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
+1 for veloflex
I've had my master 25s for a few months now and they've been great. I don't know if they are but they certainly feel faster than the tyres I had before (hutchinson equinox 2)


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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:09 pm
Posts: 146
S-Works Turbo Cotton 26mm, you will not regret it

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 Post subject: Re: Race Clincher Tyre
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:41 pm 


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 Post subject: Race Clincher Tyre
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:05 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm
Posts: 983
c60rider wrote:
morganb wrote:
c60rider wrote:
The only downside to the GP4000s is perhaps a very slightly less supple ride than other tyres. But this is more than made up for with puncture resistance, wear, grip and low weight. If using alloy wheels then coupled with latex tubes would improve the ride feel. With a C17 rim then a 23mm is the optimum for racing. A 25mm ends up with a lightbulb effect so although it may be more comfortable isn't faster. I don't think you can call it a racing rim if the inner is wider than that.

There are plenty of racing rims with substantially wider internal widths, the newer Roval wheels, ENVEs, Bontrager Aeolus. I don't think I regularly ride any wheels under 19.5mm internal width any more.


The fashion in recent years is to go wider and that is the perception for a lot of the consumers that wider is faster. Only if coupled with the right tyre. A C15 with a 23mm tyre is no different than a C17 and a 25mm if comparing the profile of the tyre and rim. Too wide a tyre on a rim causes it to lightbulb so losing the aerodynamic effect. Which is why a 23mm Conti or Vittoria (measures at 25mm+) fits so well with a C17. A Conti/Vittoria 25mm (which measure over 27mm) starts to lightbulb. But then you can start to mistake larger tyres having a greater volume of air in them, thereby being able to run them at lower pressure and that being more comfortable and feeling faster. So for training comfort is possibly the priority over speed so a bigger tyre is always better but if it's outright speed you're after, and if you're racing that's what you want, then comfort is sacrificed a little for the aerodynamic benefits. Otherwise you would see the pros running 40mm tyres and mountain bike rims at Paris-Roubaix. They only really go up to 26/28mm tubs but then you can't compare clinchers and tubs at all when it comes to rim width and the effect on tyres. Rim width has no effect on how wide a tub is but has a huge effect on the profile of a clincher. Bigger internal width of rims need bigger tyres to maximise those aero benefits.
This article that's been used here before explains it far better than I ever can https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04/03/best-wider-road-bike-tires-wheel-sizes/
I think the differences we're getting with a certain rim width, tyre width, pressure and so on are far less significant than the manufacturers would have us believe. Anything to get us to buy the latest as if what we're currently using is now no good.


What aerodynamic effect? Per data from wind tunnel, wider tire (e.g. light bulb effect) is sure-footed with less rolling resistance, lower tire pressure is ~1 watt slower. Unless you are a Cat 1/pro chasing podium, ~1 watt is utterly meaningless. Every time you pull a water bottle out and take a sip, you penalize yourself with ~ 15 watts.

Keep in mind that, 95 % of road cyclists don't even race! I find it humerous as to why riders mimic pros and train on pure race machines with deep carbon wheels and narrow tires.

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