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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:27 pm 
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How does the new Shimano 9100 (DuraAce) cassette differ from the previous 9000 cassette, say in the same 11-28 gears? The cog sequence looks to be the same. How are the cassettes different? The 9100 is of course more expensive than 9000, which can still be purchased online.

This is not a question about the DA vs Red cassette, or criticisms people have of the DA cassette design (I've not had any issues), unless there is something different in the 9100 that is relevant.


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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:27 pm 
  • Shimano Dura-Ace CS-9000 cassette 11-speed 11-28 T.
  • 271.9 EUR
  • Price includes 19% V.A.T. which will be deducted when goods are leaving the EU. Shipping costs may be added.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:19 pm 
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Posts: 814
don't believe the design changed. 9100 is fully compatible with 9000 as well, so if you get a deal on 9000 buy 9000. I go further than that and always buy ultegra cassette and chain for my otherwise 9000 group.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:46 pm 
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The significant change is that you get some new cog ratios and lose a couple.

A few people have had chronic problems with CS-9000 cassette breakage. I'll get flamed for saying that when you see a few people report four, five, ten broken cassettes and most people don't have any breakage, it sounds like pilot error. But that's how I see it. Some CS-9000 cassettes tended to creak and there were minor changes made to address that, but most of the creaking, according to Shimano, was actually elsewhere on the bike.

I'd simply share the view that you should just buy a 6800 cassette. It's a third the price, identical in tooth design, a tiny bit heavier but a lot more durable, and I haven't heard of anyone having problems with them. There are a couple ratios only available in -9000 cassettes, but a few only available on -6800's, so see what you need. It's a smart move to use Ultegra in this role.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:07 am 
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11.4 wrote:
The significant change is that you get some new cog ratios and lose a couple.

A few people have had chronic problems with CS-9000 cassette breakage. I'll get flamed for saying that when you see a few people report four, five, ten broken cassettes and most people don't have any breakage, it sounds like pilot error. But that's how I see it. Some CS-9000 cassettes tended to creak and there were minor changes made to address that, but most of the creaking, according to Shimano, was actually elsewhere on the bike.

I'd simply share the view that you should just buy a 6800 cassette. It's a third the price, identical in tooth design, a tiny bit heavier but a lot more durable, and I haven't heard of anyone having problems with them. There are a couple ratios only available in -9000 cassettes, but a few only available on -6800's, so see what you need. It's a smart move to use Ultegra in this role.

Thanks. Do you know if there is any difference in the 9100 vs 9000 in the 11-28?

I also have 6800 cassettes and it's reasonable advice. I've not had any troubles with my 9000 cassettes (or 6800 for that matter).

One strange thing that I'm experiencing is that when I put a 6800 11-28 cassette on my Tacx Neo, I get some noise in a few middle gears. I've tried micro-trimming the derailleur to eliminate without success. But when I put a 9000 11-28 cassette on the Neo, it's quiet. I'd much rather use a 6800 on the Neo than a 9000 but I've spent a couple hours trying to debug, have tried a few 6800 and a few 9000 cassettes, mounting, unmounting, torquing different tightnesses, and the 6800's make noise and the 9000's don't.

Oh well, that's really a different topic. The question here was 9000 vs 9100, not 9000 vs 6800 or vs Red.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:15 am 
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I believe they got rid of the carbon fiber.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:57 am 
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Nope, three cog cluster is still carbon.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:06 am 
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Posts: 338
from 9100 thread:

ooo wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:
The first carrier is alloy. The catastrophic failures only occur on the second carrier.


We can compare CS-9000 and CS-R9100 using PDF from Shimano :

EV-CS-R9100-4065.pdf

№12 is first carrier - it is different - "B" rating - Parts are interchangable, but differ in materials
№11 is second carrier - it is the same - "A" rating - same parts, same part numbers (Y1YC98130, Y1YC98140, Y1YC98150, Y1YC98160)
(the rest sprockets are also the same, except smallest 11T №3 and 12T №4)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:13 pm 
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Location: PNW
ooo wrote:
from 9100 thread:

ooo wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:
The first carrier is alloy. The catastrophic failures only occur on the second carrier.


We can compare CS-9000 and CS-R9100 using PDF from Shimano :

EV-CS-R9100-4065.pdf

№12 is first carrier - it is different - "B" rating - Parts are interchangable, but differ in materials
№11 is second carrier - it is the same - "A" rating - same parts, same part numbers (Y1YC98130, Y1YC98140, Y1YC98150, Y1YC98160)
(the rest sprockets are also the same, except smallest 11T №3 and 12T №4)

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm
Posts: 814
ooo wrote:
from 9100 thread:

ooo wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:
The first carrier is alloy. The catastrophic failures only occur on the second carrier.


We can compare CS-9000 and CS-R9100 using PDF from Shimano :

EV-CS-R9100-4065.pdf

№12 is first carrier - it is different - "B" rating - Parts are interchangable, but differ in materials
№11 is second carrier - it is the same - "A" rating - same parts, same part numbers (Y1YC98130, Y1YC98140, Y1YC98150, Y1YC98160)
(the rest sprockets are also the same, except smallest 11T №3 and 12T №4)



B: Parts are usable, but differ in materials, appearance, finish, size, etc

Could be different but not in a material way. may simply be appearance.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:56 pm 
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i had the first gen CS-9000 with 4 rivets on the second carrier. when my cog snapped in pieces, three rivets were totally off. the flexing probably snapped the cog. i think it was the 19T. the second get cassette has 8 rivets and seem to hold up a bit better. i lube the rivets to keep them quiet. make sure you get the newer 8-rivet carrier where for the second cluster...you should be good. if the price is the same with the 9100...i would probably go for that.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:58 am 
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LOL. This thread got team-work pulled back into shape after the attempt to derail it.

On topic;

I wish Shimano would sell each part of their cassettes separately. I would love to be able to mix and match without having to buy two or more complete cassettes. Also, I always wear out the top cogs before the lower ones. Would be a bit of a logistics challenge though, eh. And would net them less cash total, so I can see why they don't do it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:15 pm 
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Posts: 1089
The teeth are shaped to optimize shifting from one particular cog size to another. Each is unique, including where it lies from inside to outside. So while the splines are (obviously) all identical, it doesn't mean you really want to mix and match. It's like mixing up chainring combinations -- yes, it will shift, but no, it won't shift as well. Or will throw some odd issues at you.

As for the cassettes, to be clear, there was a running change in the 9000 to one designated 9001, though I saw many of the revised ones still packaged as 9000's. As mentioned above, it picked up extra rivets. The issue was mostly to eliminate creaking, but it's probably fair to say that creaking could have led to broken cassettes in a few cases. I'd still point out that broken cassettes were still exceedingly rare. There's a certain likelihood of anything under stress incurring catastrophic failure -- chains do it, saddles do it, bars do it, and so do cassettes. The numbers were always very small. If you get a 9000 cassette and it breaks on you, it's still warrantied. If you can get it for a lot less, or if you can only get a certain ratio in a 9000, I wouldn't sweat it. If creaking starts, it's enough for Shimano to replace it, and if creaking is any early indicator of a risk of breaking, you've avoided any problems.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:26 pm 
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Posts: 804
I disagree that it's a small number and rare. Why did Shimano change the design.

viewtopic.php?t=118879

Look even VeloNews suggested an Ultegra cassette


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:41 pm 
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Posts: 239
Location: PNW
kode54 wrote:
i had the first gen CS-9000 with 4 rivets on the second carrier. when my cog snapped in pieces, three rivets were totally off. the flexing probably snapped the cog. i think it was the 19T. the second get cassette has 8 rivets and seem to hold up a bit better. i lube the rivets to keep them quiet. make sure you get the newer 8-rivet carrier where for the second cluster...you should be good. if the price is the same with the 9100...i would probably go for that.

The 9000 is cheaper than the 9100. On one site I shop, $200 for the 9000 11-28, $240 for the 9100 11-28.

I have an Ultegra 6800 11-28 cassette too. What puzzled me though is something I ran into recently. I have DA cassettes on my 2 Parlee's (one is otherwise DA, the other Ultegra). I bought a direct-drive trainer, the Tacx Neo, that comes without a cassette. I put the unused Ultegra on the trainer and could not get it to be silent. I got plenty of chain noise in the middle cogs. I re-mounted, re-torqued, micro-adjusted the Di2 derailleur, futzed for over an hour, maybe 2, getting frustrated, but could not get the noise to go again. I pulled a DA cassette off a spare wheel, and it was silent. The DA and Ultegra cassettes should be totally interchangable, totally the same spacing, but I couldn't get the Ultegra one to be silent. Perhaps someone more skilled than I at rear derailleur adjustment could get it to work quietly. I could not.

I am going to put the Ultegra on the spare wheel and see if it's quiet on the road.

In any case, I know lots of people recommend Ultegra cassettes over DA due to carrier and/or creaking issues with the DA. I've not had any issues with my DA cassettes. For the 9100 it appears most of the parts are the same as 9000, including the carrier. For the few that are different, like the lockring, I would imagine that's cosmetic. The 11t is different, not sure how.


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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:41 pm 
  • Shimano Dura-Ace CS-9000 cassette 11-speed 11-28 T.
  • 271.9 EUR
  • Price includes 19% V.A.T. which will be deducted when goods are leaving the EU. Shipping costs may be added.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:19 pm 
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Could it be that the chain and DA cassettes were a little worn (together) and the Ultegra cassette, being brand new, could cause some noise? I go through 3 chains on 1 cassette without any extra noise, but as you mention the cassette is new and the chain maybe not, it could be a explanation.

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