Understanding the foibles of reach....

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Delorre
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm

by Delorre

I've noticed that reach is the length between middle of bottom bracket and middle of the toptube, mesured at the top of the top tube. 2 bikes with the same reach, but with a significant difference in stack, will have a different effective handlebar reach with the bars set at the same height. Ex : Putting 2cm of spacers on a very low frame (canyon aeroroad f.ex) with same reach as a more upright frame will lead to a much shorter effective reach on the bars if the bars are at the same height. Something to bear in mind!

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savechief
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:36 am

by savechief

Running the same stem length, angle and number of total spacers (including bearing top cap) would make the TCR about 2.5mm longer in reach, not something that I would suspect that you would feel. So what other things have possibly changed?

Same handlebars?
Same shifters?
How accurately did you set up the TCR seat position in relation to the BB compared to where you had it on the Tarmac?
Same pedals?
Same shoes?
What else changed between the two setups besides just the frame?
Time VXRS Ulteam (7.16 kg)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=120268

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Delorre wrote:I've noticed that reach is the length between middle of bottom bracket and middle of the toptube, mesured at the top of the top tube.

No it isn't. It's the horizontal distance between centre BB and the centre of the top of the head tube. I suspect that you know that, and just had confused typing fingers :P

2 bikes with the same reach, but with a significant difference in stack, will have a different effective handlebar reach with the bars set at the same height. Ex : Putting 2cm of spacers on a very low frame (canyon aeroroad f.ex) with same reach as a more upright frame will lead to a much shorter effective reach on the bars if the bars are at the same height.

Just under 6mm, assuming a 73d head angle.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

TheDarkInstall wrote:As I am now employed by Canyon as their official stem length consultant, I can reveal the new set up they have been working on, following my strict instructions.

This should sort out any reach issues people were having.

Image


Haha..... :thumbup:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I have Ritchey SuperLogic 2, which is speced: 78 mm reach/ 132mm drop.
EvoMax is speced: 73mm reach / 120mm drop.
Both these are 42cm C-C versions!
If i instead measure directly from where i'm positioning hands, behind or on hoods, to where i have them in the drops, i find that EvoMax is 0.5mm (deeper drop) lower than SL 2.
Looking back at measuring table, SL 2 is actually 12mm lower than EvoMax.
So the sheet is probably correct, but outcome also pend on where we actually have hands positioned.

I agree, it sucks buying expensive stems and then the reach of bars kills it.
I have tried to see if i could have stems built with wedges for 100-105-110mm reach.
I only noted 3T has been picking this up. No stem available yet, but it's shown at Eurobike.
Forgot the name of it though!
I think a wedge and two sets of bolts could solve this.

Measuring handlebars is a bit weird, because when reach is measured, it's "usually" from C-C to C-C according to spec sheet.
But the reach we use will be from outside to outside.
Still, looking at fairwheels handlebar test, manufactures spec sheet does not seem to go hand in hand with the results they've published.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

TheDarkInstall
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:44 am

by TheDarkInstall

wheelsONfire wrote:Haha..... :thumbup:


Finally someone acknowledges my genius.

Haha. :)

Denavelo
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm

by Denavelo

I'm basically using the bars from the FWB test, since they're reach measurements are accurate. haha
Any potential bars I buy will be from that list. I actually bought a set of New Ultimate Evo bars, and they've been amazing.
Prior to the New Ultimate and Zipp SLTB bars I ran, I only used Enve Compact. Probably just stick with New Ultimate from here on out. Love the feel, shape and short reach.
I can transition my hands from the hoods to the top section with little to no hand movement. With the Zipp bars, I had to make an effort to get to the top.
Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Focus Izalco Max | Firefly #194 Stainless XCR | Firefly #277 | Neilpryde Bura SL 11.9 | Crust Evasion Lite

boots2000
Posts: 1393
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm

by boots2000

SLTB bars have really long reach- You could take it the other way by getting a set of Ritchey Neo Classic- they are really short in terms of reach.
Then it would either feel right to you might even need a longer stem.

Denavelo wrote:I recently realized my issue was with the brands that make handlebars.
According to FWB, there is no standard on measuring handlebar reach from an industry perspective. I bought a pair of Zipp SLTB bars with an advertised reach of 92mm, but actual was 102mm. That's like going from a 110mm stem to a 120mm stem, just in bar reach. I went to a bar (New ultimate Evo) that tested actual and advertised (85mm reach), and oh my! What a world of difference. I think handlebars are the main culprit with fit that no one addresses, not even the bike industry. They should make a standard on calculating reach, across all brands.

http://blog.fairwheelbikes.com/reviews-and-testing/road-handlebar-review/

From the review regarding reach....

Notes about reach, drop and flare: One thing that has always bothered us is that there is no standard system for measuring reach and drop. Actual vs. claimed reach particularly can vary dramatically, in this test alone the bars range by almost 3 cm in Reach. 3cm can be the difference between needing a 9 cm or 12 cm stem, yet many people don’t consider reach on their bars when making a choice.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Sadly there are no flare out bars in this test.
I would like to see the comparison between Ritchey EvoMax and new Easton EC70 AX/ EA70 AX.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

I have found the Canyon road handlebars (claimed reach of 70mm) actually do measure 70mm. Which is about as short as I've found, anywhere. This applies to their carbon and alloy bars.

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