TheDarkInstall wrote: youngs_modulus wrote:
antonioiglesius wrote:I like the fact that there are new players in the market, like Wahoo and Lezyne. But, to me, it feels like they're primarily playing catch-up to Garmin. Sure, the Elemnt might have a nice screen, and marketing might be excited about that, but I'm not. I know what I'm about to say is unfair to the engineers etc. from these new players, but I keep having this general feeling that they're just mucking around and not doing anything truly innovative.
Oh, this is interesting. I'm not sure what you mean by mucking around, but in my opinion as an engineer, Garmin is sloppy and more than a little lazy. They're leaving room for their competitors in a couple of areas:
- Their code is buggy as hell. New firmware releases routinely break previously-functional features.
- Garmin often waits months
to release fixes for the above-mentioned buggy code, even when the fixes are trivial. I'm not sure why that is. It can't be due to the time required for regression testing...if that were the reason, they wouldn't be releasing such buggy code in the first place.
- For a long time, Garmin didn't really understand cycling. They implemented lots of features that didn't matter much to cyclists but failed to address cyclists' actual needs. (For example, smart recording was basically useless with power...or for courses that were not dead-straight, at least the last time I checked). Additionally, before they switched to a binary file format (.fit files) their data files referred to our activity as "biking," which speaks volumes about how many cyclists (bikers?) they had working on their stuff for the cycling market.
- They used to charge outrageous sums for street maps. Maybe they still do, but OpenStreetMaps has come along and taken that business away from them. My heart bleeds for Garmin's lost revenue.
- My Edge 500's screen has a resolution of 128x160 pixels. This is lower-res than the Texas Instruments TI-92 graphing calculator, which was introduced in 1995
. There are office buildings with way more windows than my Garmin has pixels. Readability and information density are both limited by this resolution. The Wahoo Elemnt's resolution is 240x400. It's a bigger device, but Garmin's low-res displays are still generally low-hanging fruit for its competitors.
antonioiglesius wrote:So what do I find really innovative?
First of all, good for you for asking that rhetorical question. Many people just stamp their feet and demand "more innovation," which is silly. You're willing to try to describe what you'd like to see. Cheers!
Secondly: I mean this in the best possible way, but I can't help thinking that by "innovation" you mean "features which I personally find exciting." Seriously, this is not a criticism. But "innovation" is such an ill-defined term that it ends up meaning whatever the speaker wants it to mean. As a result, it doesn't mean much to the people who are actually doing what most people think of as "innovating."
Your comparison with the iPhone is apt. GPS-based bike computers and smart phones were introduced around the same time and have since become mature products. It's not that people have run out of ideas for these things; it's that all the interesting/hard stuff has already been done for these products.
You suggest that maybe "tech has plateaued," but I'm not sure what this means. We're no longer finding new planets in our solar system, but I can't imagine anyone arguing that "astronomy has plateaued."
For a long time, Garmin was the only game in town for GPS-based bike computers. They became fat and happy, and now competitors are starting to nibble at them with products that cost less and show (a lot) more attention to detail. Either Garmin will ignore the competitors until Garmin becomes a non-entity in that market, or they'll respond with cheaper, better computers to compete with Lezyne, Polar et al. Either way, consumers win.
Excellent! Completely agree.
In addition, Garmin is schizophrenic as hell; they shift around ideas and fundamentally change designs in the same product tree, then revert back to form once it proves to be idiotic (getting rid of the touch screen and hiding zoom deep in the menus on the 520, then binning that blatantly insane idea and going back to touch for the 820, for example)
Their customer service is a joke too.
I would like to see an open source standard bike computer OS along the lines of Linux come out.
I was user of Garmin Edge 500 for few years, and did not have any problems using it. I come to Garmin from Polar CX800 which i payed 450 eur, and it was total s*it (for example the most important button does not work properly, and it was like that on every single device i saw). So Edge 500 was twice cheaper then Polar in that time, and offeer many inovative things. I used Edge 500 for following routes which i download from the net (and upload to the edge), or the routes that i create and upload for riding. I use this for many times without any problems, since i was riding many times alone and in foreign countrys, so this was important to me.
In using Edge 500 for 3 years, only ONCE i lost part of the course (i pause the ride, and the device was going off, and that happened. I just turned off auto off option, and never any problem since that). The things i did not like to Edge 500 was slow time finding satelittes sometimes, and that i had to connect to a Pc after the ride.. But again.. For that time when it was introduced it was much better then the competition.
Edge 510, had awfull touch screen (i really think if u dont need GPS for instant navigation when u ride, u dont need Touch Screen), buggy software and bad resolution.
Now im using Edge 520 for few months. I can say i really like this device. As first much better screen and resolution compared to Edge 500, so now i have almost all screens i need on the main screen, so dont need to shift screens during the ride. I think this is allready an upgrade. Then, bluetooth Phone connection work very nice.. I really like that i can upload ride imediatly after i finish (often after the ride we are going for espresso, so i can analuze the ride there with the friends..). Better GPS (Glonass), means it's finding the satelittes very quick.. For routing and course creating, i just put OpenStreetMaps, and there was enough storage space to put few different country's (where i usually ride), and it's much better then Edge 500 bread crunch routing. It's that nice that i almost dont see a point of having device like Edge 820. About zoom option i dont have also problems to change it during the ride (and im using often). Also i like recovery check option. Strava Live Segment made me riding fun, and also make me to ride with more effort on almost every ride ,and also using a lot.. Other thing which is very nice is that i can see SMS or Phone call on the screen, so to decide should i pick up, or just ignore it.. So i really cant find better device then EDGE 520 in this moment on the market. Connect IQ also make this device future proof and we can expect more interesting software.
About Edge 820 and touch screen.. It's different device then Edge 520 in the main point of the device.. It's a navigation device, and on that kind u need touch screen, since it's faster to type that way.. Also this touch screen actually work much better then total s*it touch screen of Edge 510. If u dont need Instant Navigation then u dont need this.Edge 520 is just good enough, and i definetly recommend it.
And usefull link not just for Edge 520:https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/05/dow ... 00810.html
And finnally enough for Garmin
What am i holding out on? After so much marketing hype make me want things like MORE AERO, Ligher, Stiffer... I was lucky enough to actually try different bikes and eqipment.. And i realize that there is so much marketing and i realized that my self i like simple and things that actually work.. So i realized that i dont need AERO , not need Electric shifting (i realy like mechanical feeling of Campy...), no need Disk Brakes.. So im holding out on some simple, high qualiy steel or titanium frame.. Probably my next one would be Colnago Master or Arabesque...
What is now happening in the Bike Industry, remind me on HiFi and Surround Hype few years ago (which is total marketing compared to HighQuality Stereo )