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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:21 am 
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Posts: 974
Say you're just using the racier bike for sub 50 mile rides, and KOM chasing, and it's comfortable for that - then why does the bike need to be comfortable for prolonged periods? 8)


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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:21 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:39 am 
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Posts: 183
I took a different approach. I have R5Ca and S5VWD "race" bikes, both set up long and low. I've used both for 100 mile rides, with the R5 streets ahead on comfort. Then I have an Enigma Excel, which is a race geometry Ti frame. I set that up just as low, but a little shorter. I find the reduction in reach makes a difference on long (150-200 mile) rides, together with the inherent comfort from Ti. I'm running 25c tubs on the Enigma and 22s on the others, but have used the Enigma with the wheels from the R5Ca without much perceived reduction in comfort.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:58 pm 
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People say the R5 is harsh funnily enough. Are the roads good where you live?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:57 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
964cup lives in the u.k like me. Our roads are money starved and shit.

Bikes should be comfortable. all my bikes have a very similar position. I am a bit lower on my race bikes but I can ride the race bikes for 100+ miles without discomfort. The reason why I am lower on the race bikes is simply because the frame allows it.

Does the cerevlo have tyre clearance issues if so that is one reason why it feels harsh. If it can accomodate wider rims and tyre it will feel plusher. All bikes feel harsh on narrow tyres and rims.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:01 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
964cup lives in the u.k like me. Our roads are money starved and shit.

Bikes should be comfortable. all my bikes have a very similar position. I am a bit lower on my race bikes but I can ride the race bikes for 100+ miles without discomfort. The reason why I am lower on the race bikes is simply because the frame allows it.

Does the cerevlo have tyre clearance issues if so that is one reason why it feels harsh. If it can accomodate wider rims and tyre it will feel plusher. All bikes feel harsh on narrow tyres and rims.


I think the R5Ca is plush, frankly (although subjectively less so than the R5VWD). It has plenty of clearance (I've run 25s on it with room to spare), but I run 22s out of preference - I'm not a huge fan of riding at low pressure, so even when I'm using 25s I still go 110psi front and 120 rear. There's a load of reasons, from not liking the squidgy handling at 80-ish through believing (perhaps wrongly) that I puncture more at low pressures, to doing long rides, and commuting, on tubs and knowing that if I start the day at 80psi, I'll end it at 50-60, which is horrid. I'm sure I'd change my tune on Belgian pave. I'm running 25s on the Excel only because they don't come in a 23.

The S5 (Team frame) is about as yielding as an RSJ, and has no clearance. You could just about run the old Vittoria Pave 24s, but 25s are a no-no. It's on Mavic CX01 tubs ('cos of the aero blade thing on the CXR80s) at 140+ to compensate for their sloooow compound. Doesn't help the ride any, but I only really use it for laps of Regent's Park, so it's tolerable.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:38 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I may got confused between the r5 and the s5 then. I know one if them has clesrance issues. Conti tubs dont loose aor also 60 psi in tub is just fine.

Many beilve that punctures happen less frequently at lower pressures. I thinkmit makes little difference.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:27 pm 
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Posts: 183
Contis don't lose much, it's true, but the Challenge Stradas I use on my Ti bike (which is the one I use for commuting), and on my classic bikes, have latex tubes and lose about 20psi every 12 hours. The Mavic tubs are extraordinary (apparently they're designed for triathlon) and seem to hold very high pressures almost indefinitely.

ETA - I know 60psi is fine in a tub (after all they run less than that for Roubaix, and way less in cross) - in fact I did the last 120k of a recent 250k ride at 60psi with a recurrent flat that sealant just wouldn't catch properly - but I hate the feel of a soft tyre; you get out of the saddle and the bike squidges about under you. It gives modern bikes the same feel as my ALAN Carbonio, which is about as stiff as cooked pasta.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Posts: 368
Shrike wrote:
Thanks McGilli, really helpful actually that. One question though - do you ever KOM chase and wish you had the S5 for it?


I used to - that used to be important for me and so having the S5 was great. I don't chase them any more. But I can honestly say that if I still really was after KOM's - like that was really important - I probably would have held on to that bike as a secondary. There could be better bikes for KOM's, but again, just my experience.

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viewtopic.php?f=10&t=140326&p=1246305#p1246304


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:51 pm
Posts: 477
Location: RVA,USA
I'm dealing with this right now. I bought a Alloy Synapse 6 Tiagra in 2013, now I just got a CAAD 12 105 and I'm not sure if I'll ever want to ride the synapse again. I'm giving serious thought to selling it. The CAAD took some adjusting to get used to. I also just got a bike fit done and really helped the CAAD. From what I've seen, endurance frames you can get away with not having your fit dialed in properly with out paying the price in soreness. The more aggressive CAAD, you need to have the fit dialed in.
On a side note, what's fair to ask for a 13 Synapse Tiagra 4600 triple?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:38 am 
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Posts: 47
evan326 wrote:
I'm dealing with this right now. I bought a Alloy Synapse 6 Tiagra in 2013, now I just got a CAAD 12 105 and I'm not sure if I'll ever want to ride the synapse again. I'm giving serious thought to selling it. The CAAD took some adjusting to get used to. I also just got a bike fit done and really helped the CAAD. From what I've seen, endurance frames you can get away with not having your fit dialed in properly with out paying the price in soreness. The more aggressive CAAD, you need to have the fit dialed in.
Each and every one of your bike should deserve a minimum fit from a LBS (or any LBS). My regular fit routine for every new bike is:
- standard position of knee/pedals, arm angles, ... (this is what I call the minimum, measurements can be duplicate from my previous bikes but type of bike can )
- ride it for some weeks/miles.
- come back to your LBS with a smile
or if anything is bothering/hurting too much
or if you want a more/less agressive ride.
- repeat
or do the minor changes yourself, once you get used to your needs and physical limits. Keep track of reference fit before the changes.

evan326 wrote:
On a side note, what's fair to ask for a 13 Synapse Tiagra 4600 triple?
If pristine state, I would ask for 650/700€ max. Keep it if you can't find a deal over 450€ (i.e. if covered with stone chips and every blots are rusty ...) or give it to some friend.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Posts: 817
lol, the average LBS doesnt know anything about proper bikefitting.

:D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:51 pm
Posts: 477
Location: RVA,USA
stk57 wrote:
evan326 wrote:
On a side note, what's fair to ask for a 13 Synapse Tiagra 4600 triple?
If pristine state, I would ask for 650/700€ max. Keep it if you can't find a deal over 450€ (i.e. if covered with stone chips and every blots are rusty ...) or give it to some friend.

Thanks
BRM wrote:
lol, the average LBS doesnt know anything about proper bikefitting.

:D

I got my fit done at a shop with a specialized certified fitter. He at least knew a lot more than I did. I learned enough to give myself at least a baseline fit now on the next bike I get.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Michigan
ergott wrote:
I have a few road bikes of various levels of "stiffness" and "racy setup", but I have the same position on all of them. I think it's best to have a position on the bike that's both powerful and comfortable enough to ride all day long. If you are on a race bike and can't stay on that bike for prolonged lengths you should reconsider your fit.


I am with ergott on this one, too.
IMO, fit is fit. All of my bikes are set up to fit very similarly in terms of measurements and position.
One of my road frames is steel, takes wider tires and long-reach brakes, the other is carbon and more limited in tire size. Contact points are exactly the same, but the ride on each is quite different.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:33 pm
Posts: 47
BRM wrote:
lol, the average LBS doesnt know anything about proper bikefitting.
:D

Define LBS ? if it has 2 things to do (frame size, fit) and failed at both, can we call it a LBS ? Can a WW member stay in contact with them ?

I guess we don't know any "average" LBS here at WW. Do you ? How can you sleep at night ? :shock:

Even more when looking for a bike. If not, just buy yours online ... and spend 2 minutes here finding a DIY fitting topic ... or a "above average" LBS near you.

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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:50 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:43 pm
Posts: 817
The Average Local Bike Shop doesn't know much. Too hard for you to understand? :D
Wanna proof? Look to the bikeforums on the internet and see the large amount of pics people take proud of their new bike and see what a fitting/size disasters.

Many people and most new to the sport look often just to the looks of a bike and dont know any about differences in geo and are not aware how this affects fit but also handling. Also they dont see much correlation in bike geo and their own body ratios.

An endurance bike should be bought with good reasons.


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