Campy Front derailer issues

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

Post Reply
User avatar
dgasmd
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:10 am
Location: South Florida

by dgasmd

I've had this 11sp SR grouppo for a few years. Recently , I swapped my standard crank for a compact and adjusted the derailer accordingly. Shifted on the stand perfectly, but just a bit rough when riding and under load. Went on a very mountainous ride and about mile 58 I went to shift to the small ring when the chain became so jammed I couldn't get it out. Had to quit the ride. Got home later, swapped cranks, and readjusted the derailer again. Flawlessly and easy shifting while on the stand, but the moment I went to shift while riding it, it would not shift at all. Derailer moved and such, but no shift.

I must have readjusted it all from the beginning at least 6-8 times taking the cable off, adjusting screws, alignment, etc. watched the Campagnolo video on YouTube just in case and I was doing it text book perfect. Still no shift under load. I'm sincerely baffled!

Any suggestions?? I'm about to throw the towel and take it to the lbs, only to watch them struggle as I'm less than confident in their skills with Campagnolo!

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Hmmm... not sure. But here's a bit of a checklist and a couple questions:
- Is everything Campagnolo? Cranks, chainrings, chain, etc? The crank was swapped, still Campy? Compact, 34/50?
- Is everything compatabile with each other (seems like it is, 11sp group purchased all at once?).
- Is the derailleur mounted high enough above the largest chainring to avoid any "collisions/jamming" between chain and cage.
- Is the derailleur perfectly aligned with the big ring?
- I know you've said you've adjusted the limit screws a bunch of times but that's what it sounds like to me. Almost as if the outer limit screw needs to be relaxed a tad, but not so much that the chain gets thrown off the outside.
- How did the chain get jammed? Did it drop on the inside, between small ring and the frame? Did it jam in between the rings?
- Are you using a chain catcher? If not, do. Chain drops with a compact crank (34/50) on the inside of the frame occur far more frequently than with a standard crank. The vertical distance the chain has to drop is greater and this contributes to it "missing" the landing point sometimes. Use a chain catcher.
- I'm assuming the compact crank is Campagnolo and 11speed with 11sp rings on it. If the spacing between the rings was a bit larger than spec then a narrower chain could conceivably drop and ride between the rings long enough for a good hard pedal stroke to jam it in there nicely. Haven't seen it happen on 11sp/10sp stuff, but I've seen it happen on 10sp/9sp stuff.
- Is the shift lever in good order, holding the cable where it needs to be, no frayed cable in the shift unit, etc., smooth lines etc.
- Was the compact crank new when you got it, or used? Could be that the chain rings and/or chain are worn out as well.
- Also, is the chain the correct length and not too short, creating too much tension that when you shift it really wants to pull quickly (too quickly) away from everything. I'm assuming you had to either replace the chain or shorten the existing one when you changed the crank to compact. Are you using a "quick link"? Some people like them, I don't.

Good luck.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Attermann
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Denmark

by Attermann

check the inner cage, i experienced mine cracked where the spring is seated :)

User avatar
dgasmd
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:10 am
Location: South Florida

by dgasmd

Calnago wrote:- Is everything Campagnolo? Cranks, chainrings, chain, etc? The crank was swapped, still Campy? Compact, 34/50?

YES, THE ENTIRE THING IS SR 11sp CAMPY BOUGHT TOGETHER. THE COMPACT IS CHORUS, AS ARE THE CHAIN AND CASSETTES.

- Is everything compatabile with each other (seems like it is, 11sp group purchased all at once?).

YES

- Is the derailleur mounted high enough above the largest chainring to avoid any "collisions/jamming" between chain and cage.

YES. TRIPLE CHECKED ALIGNMENT AND DISTANCE EVERY TIME I ADJUSTED IT

- Is the derailleur perfectly aligned with the big ring?

AS PERFECTLY STRAIGHT AND ALIGNED AS I CAN TELL

- I know you've said you've adjusted the limit screws a bunch of times but that's what it sounds like to me. Almost as if the outer limit screw needs to be relaxed a tad, but not so much that the chain gets thrown off the outside.
- How did the chain get jammed? Did it drop on the inside, between small ring and the frame? Did it jam in between the rings?

SHIFTING TO SMALLER RING AND GOT WRAPPED AROUND AND UNDER CHAIN CATCHER. HAD TO TAKE THE CRANK OFF EVENTUALLY!!!

- Are you using a chain catcher? If not, do. Chain drops with a compact crank (34/50) on the inside of the frame occur far more frequently than with a standard crank. The vertical distance the chain has to drop is greater and this contributes to it "missing" the landing point sometimes. Use a chain catcher.

YES

- I'm assuming the compact crank is Campagnolo and 11speed with 11sp rings on it. If the spacing between the rings was a bit larger than spec then a narrower chain could conceivably drop and ride between the rings long enough for a good hard pedal stroke to jam it in there nicely. Haven't seen it happen on 11sp/10sp stuff, but I've seen it happen on 10sp/9sp stuff.

AS ABOVE, CHORUS 11sp

- Is the shift lever in good order, holding the cable where it needs to be, no frayed cable in the shift unit, etc., smooth lines etc.

YES. Can't see anything wrong with it or cable. EVERYTHING TORQUED AS PER CAMPAGNOLO

- Was the compact crank new when you got it, or used? Could be that the chain rings and/or chain are worn out as well.

WAS BRAND NEW. BOUGHT WHEN THE SR KIT WAS PURCHASED. USED NO MORE THAN 600 MILES!!

- Also, is the chain the correct length and not too short, creating too much tension that when you shift it really wants to pull quickly (too quickly) away from everything. I'm assuming you had to either replace the chain or shorten the existing one when you changed the crank to compact.


CHAIN IS THE SAME LENGTH AND HAVE NOT BEING CHANGED. I USE IT INTERCHANGEABLY WHEN I USE THE COMPACT CRANK AND DIFFERENT CLIMBING CASSETTE. HAS WORKED OUT WELL EVERY TIME IN THE PAST 10+ TIMES IVE USED THE SET UP.

*I will add that this is not the first time I've used the crank or cassette. I've done this more than 10x without issues adjusting the deraileurs before and after. Always smooth easy and shifting. The only other thing I could think of is the derailer hanger is loose or coming undone, so when under load maybe it moves too much. When I checked it didn't seem to have anything wrong though.

User avatar
dj97223
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

It sounds like chain suck? Chain may be worn, tight link, mucked up -- something causing it not to drop properly to the small ring. Re-check chain wear and length; if you are using it for both compact and regular rings you may be pushing the boundary of acceptable length. Worn or incorrect chain length can cause problems when shifting under load.
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Hmmm... tough to tell without seeing it. Was there a standard crank on there before, or just another mid compact crank. When in small/small how does the chain look per the campy guidelines on chain length?
Perhaps it's too long? Just don't know without seeing it. Gave you all I got at this point.
One more thing, if your chain catcher is set up properly there should be no way the chain can get between the small chain ring and the catcher, that's what it's there for. Could the brazeon or the clamp that the derailleur be attached to be loosest all. Without seeing it I can't tell what it might be. Sounds like you're checking everything properly however. Keep us posted as to what you figure out ultimately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
dgasmd
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:10 am
Location: South Florida

by dgasmd

The bike has the standard SR crank all the time and the compact gets put on occasionally for climbing areas. Again, I've been using the same climbing cassette gear ratios, same compact, same chain length, etc for years. Back and forth without issues at all until now.

Chain is cleaned and lubed every other ride, and it is fairly new.

I am completely baffled, but I will give a crack at it again tomorrow.

User avatar
havana
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:04 pm

by havana

Try and isolate the problem by replacing stuff. First up should be the chain.
Editor-in-chief CycloWorld.cc - the largest database of gran fondo's and sportives in the world.

Geoff
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

It got wrapped under and around the chain-catcher? It sounds like the chain catcher may be part of the problem. Which chain-catcher?

User avatar
dgasmd
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:10 am
Location: South Florida

by dgasmd

Thanks so much for taking the time to give me such detailed info and advice. Today I got out of work early and fell relaxed enough to tackle another try after watching the Campy video for set ups on youtube. I started from the very beginning as I always do, aligning, etc..... The only thing I can think of I did ever so slightly differently this time was to open the limiting screws a bit to have more room to go when adjusting, which in reality matters none as the derailleur sitting is what will determine how much they go in or out. In theory, that was the same anyway. Couldn't tell you what the hell I did today that made it work in the end. I even took the derailer off in the process and added a tiny bit of lube in each movable joint and checked the derailed hanger to make sure it was tight and in place. Whatever it was, in the end it worked, at least in the street with no shoes on in front of my house. Will take it for a true road test tomorrow and see what happens.

I think some of you keep reading this and thinking this is a first time set up and happened with fairly newly replaced parts. Again, I've been using the same chain length and type, the same cassette ratios, the same cranks, same bike, same wheels, and the same everything else for years. These 2 cranks have been exchanged several times back and forth, have climbed the Alps, the Dolomites, and many US climbs. I have been the only one doing the wrenching ever. Never an issue until this time. :noidea: :noidea: :noidea:

In the end, whatever it was has been corrected. :beerchug: :beerchug:
HOPEFULLY LOL................ :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks again to all!!

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

dgasmd wrote:Thanks so much for taking the time to give me such detailed info and advice. Today I got out of work early and fell relaxed enough to tackle another try after watching the Campy video for set ups on youtube. I started from the very beginning as I always do, aligning, etc..... The only thing I can think of I did ever so slightly differently this time was to open the limiting screws a bit to have more room to go when adjusting, which in reality matters none as the derailleur sitting is what will determine how much they go in or out. In theory, that was the same anyway.

Thanks again to all!!

I think that's what I said it sounded like in my first response. And it does matter, a lot, where that outer limit screw is set. It can be a very fine line between allowing the derailleur to settle to the next "outside" detent, or not, if the limiting screw is preventing it from getting there. I suspect this was the problem.
If the limit screws have been adjusted a lot, they can become quite loose, and for that reason I'll put a tiny bit of Loctite 222 (purple) on the threads to help them stay put over the longer term. I think they used to put Loctite on the limit screws from the factory but I'm not sure if they do anymore. It's just one of those things I check, and add, if the screw seems at all loose because although the little springs provide some tension, a dab of Loctite (but not too much), will secure them nicely to withtstand the vibrations from regular riding and constant shifting.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply