Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!
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eajohnson
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:09 pm
by eajohnson on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:57 am
nemeseri wrote:RussellS wrote:Epic-o wrote:kgt wrote:ChiZ01 wrote:madone has 2 fit option, H2 is great for a more relaxed position, very few aero bikes have relaxed fit. Also with madone you get brakes included with the frame, not sure the price difference between the 2
H2 fit and aero is a contradiction.
Why?
Because the purpose of the Trek H2 fit is to get the rider more upright. Supposedly some people are more comfortable in an upright position. The H1 fit is lower, shorter headtube. So when riding on the hoods or drops, your back is bent over more and you have less body going into the wind. Less wind resistance with the H1 than the H2. Aero of course is based on less wind resistance. So less wind resistance/aero and H2/more upright and more wind resistance are opposite of each other.
While I do agree on this mostly, I find the H1 to be too long for short riders like me. I would need a 90mm stem and I'd rather ride a h2 frameset in 50 with a 100mm slammed -17deg stem than the h1.
One of the problems with bikes that have proprietary everything is that options are limited on the seatpost and cockpit. I've been seriously considering the Trek Madone 9 H1 with Project One (for the ability to choose seatpost and cockpit options, the paint basically is free in that context) but I just realized today that I have to rule it out because in 56cm it can't bring the saddle rail above 76cm, according to Trek's specs. I need a 77cm saddle rail, and going up a frame size would mean an unworkable large stack height at the front. Everyone is different of course but your ability to put your body in the best possible aero position that your level of flexibility will comfortably accommodate, will generally trump small aerodynamic differences between framesets.
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spartan
- Posts: 1747
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am
by spartan on Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:01 am
the major issue with the f8 is the large sum of very good 'replicas' in the wild. after 3 years of development the chinarello quality /paint nearly matches the original.. the resale value is also bad on the pina.
the madone 9 is a complex beast to reverse engineer. also you can get custom paint/h1 made in the usa.
corvette zr1 = madone 9 vs pinarello=fiat spyder
Current Rides:
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
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ergott
- Posts: 2870
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- Location: Islip, NY
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by ergott on Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:44 am
kgt wrote:H2 fit and aero is a contradiction.
I'm 1.74m tall and run a relatively normal 7.3cm drop for my height. The limiting factor for me is my thighs hitting the bottom of my ribs and I have a flat back. I also bend my elbows instead of riding with my arms practically locked straight like I see a lot of people on "long and low" bikes. Many of them also have very clean bar tape in the drops position.
There's no way to set up a 54cm H1 to work properly for me. I have no problem getting my position with a Tarmac though (just bought one). The H2 isn't really super tall if you consider that the bar/stem system is working off a -17 angle which is more aero than a typical -6 stem.
Your comment is simply ignorant of the variables in human anatomy.
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kgt
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- Location: Athens, Greece
by kgt on Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:00 am
ergott wrote:There's no way to set up a 54cm H1 to work properly for me.
If you are not flexible enough then you don't actually 'need' an aero frame, that is my point. Are you really into aero? Do you really want to spend all that money for a reason? Ride an H1 geometry frame. You can't? Then just ride a Tarmac or whatever fits you.
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ergott
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by ergott on Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:36 pm
Forget about all your negative posts about aero. My position is more than fine on the bike. What you don't understand is that the fact that the H1 fit is to low for me doesn't mean I'm not flexible. I'm with a flat back and my legs hit the bottom of my ribs. Any attempt at a lower position on the bike would make me less efficient and screw up my ability to pedal properly. It has nothing do to with a lack of flexibility.
You just don't understand anatomy.
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tymon_tm
- Posts: 3665
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm
by tymon_tm on Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:55 pm
a buddy of mine who owned a lot of great bikes recently swapped his Venge for a Madone and claims it's the best frame by far - I know he rode rigs like Orcas (both gennerations) Time VXRS, few Looks, he also had a Pina recently although I can't tell which one exactly. the opinions I found onilne about this frame are very, very good and I considered trading my Aeroad for one (and getting probably Domane for a climbing bike project) but then I saw the prices which are merely insane if you ask me, esp when you pick the Project One option, which seems like a must in this case.
that's still the best looking aero bike right now and that picture above proves it - save for too many spacers that don't befit a bike like this.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.
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kgt
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by kgt on Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:00 pm
ergott wrote:You just don't understand anatomy.
I am sorry Dr I don't understand anatomy but you don't even understand what I am saying...
If you cannot find a proper fit on a H1 geometry frame then forget the Madone. Ride something else. Either it is your anatomy, body proportions or whatever your issue is. IMHO an H2 geometry Madone is just ridiculous. You are free to disagree, no prob.
Last edited by
kgt on Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ergott
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by ergott on Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:04 pm
I did forget the H1. I got a Tarmac. It has nothing to do with an inability to achieve an aero position on the bike.
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Calnago
- In Memoriam
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by Calnago on Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:11 pm
Wow! Nice build Ergott, and that is a proper fit, as well. When things are right, you can just tell. You have to be happy with the way that came out. And thank you for Big Ring/Small Cog for the photo op. That's the only way it can look fast, standing still.
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ergott
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by ergott on Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:19 pm
Calnago wrote:Wow! Nice build Ergott, and that is a proper fit, as well. When things are right, you can just tell. You have to be happy with the way that came out. And thank you for Big Ring/Small Cog for the photo op. That's the only way it can look fast, standing still.
Thanks, I just put it in the gallery with some more pics.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141620
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ChiZ01
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by ChiZ01 on Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 am
kgt wrote:ergott wrote:There's no way to set up a 54cm H1 to work properly for me.
If you are not flexible enough then you don't actually 'need' an aero frame, that is my point. Are you really into aero? Do you really want to spend all that money for a reason? Ride an H1 geometry frame. You can't? Then just ride a Tarmac or whatever fits you.
a tall aero bike is still more aero than a tall non-aero bike. By your logic, a 48cm bike will be more aero than a 56cm bike, so I guess anyone riding a size 56 should not bother with aero right?
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albertop07
- Posts: 59
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by albertop07 on Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:03 am
Madone 9 Size 54cm H1 headtube: 12.0 cm
Madone 9 Size 54cm H2 headtube: 15.5 cm
Pinarello Dogma F8 Size 54cm headtube: 14.7 cm (and Pinarello uses a small spacer as headset, so add 0.4cm)
So Pinarello F8 geometry is like Madone 9 H2 (not H1).