ax-lightness VIAL Evo D Vs lightweight urgestalt

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AJ1980
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by AJ1980

I was close to buying a Urgestalt however I recently found the vial evo (thanks to WW).

The two bikes seem to review very similar with the vial evo being more stable down hill (actually the evo D has great reviews) Unfortunately, being in asia means I cannot demo the vial evo D.

I know that a few people have commented on this forum about having or have ridden both bikes.

I'm hoping that a couple people who have ridden both can comment on the ride comparison between the two.

I currently ride a cervelo s5, so any comparison to that would be great.

thank you

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ianSWBB
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by ianSWBB

AJ1980
so both of the frames you are looking at are going to be a completely different ride to the S5 you currently have

they are more all-rounders rather than out and out power bike! more like an r5 than an s5!

if you have your S5 setup racy and low on the front, then the AX Lightness will be the one for you - the Lightweight feels quite high up on the front, a bit like a C60 endurance frame (but obviously lighter!)

The AX Lightness would get my vote!
:)

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AJ1980
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by AJ1980

Hi ianSWBB,

Thank you for the feedback. I'm not looking to replace the S5, just looking for something to ride in the hills.

I actually just found someone locally selling the Evo D (a couple of sizes too small for me) but they said that it doesn't feel like a strong frame and will be easy to break and suggested I look at a different brand. However reading this forum there has been no issues of people breaking the frames. I'm 85kg and have strong acceleration but don't throw the bike around.

Thx AJ

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kgt
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by kgt

I would not get a superlight frame at your 85kg.
All superlight frames have certain limitations in terms of strength and stiffness. A 700-800gr frame will not make you climb faster or better. Just find a strong and stiff frame around 1000gr with a medium or high modulus carbon and add some light parts and wheels. You will feel calmer on it and will end up enjoying it more IMHO.

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ianSWBB
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by ianSWBB

AJ

superlight frames from AX Lightness and Lightweight are 2 of the very best quality and workmanship, so no problems with these, which is why there aren't lots of threads complaining of breakages!

if you are 85kgs, anticipating remaining that weight or losing a few kgs as you ride the hills, then the AX Lightness and Lightweight will be fine

if you anticipate lots of cafe stops and perhaps nudging up to the 90kgs mark ;) , then a look at something like a Sarto Dinamica might be better suited - slightly sturdier than the superlight frames, but can custom geoemtry and custom colour it, so you can have it setup to do what you want

:)

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Lightweight Urgestalt is built in Asia and Vial frames are built in Germany.
Lightweight wrote that if Urgestalt had been built in Germany it had cost 12000Euro which says quite a bit on their mark up fee on what they do.

If i bought a Vial EVO, i would buy it new "if" you may need warranty.
I noted Vial EVO now has been slightly revised in some key areas. One of them is seatpost clamping region.
I would suggest you try to get a hold of Nils Wiedemann (AX Lightness) for very specific info.
He is a great guy!

You should consider, all light weight frames are thinner walled than a more heavy frame.
There is simply no way around this.

You could also consider Rolo. Rolo are or where built by Bike Ahead and cost much more.
But it could probably be compared to Ax in some ways. Also Rolo has their own ideas about sizing and lay ups.
Rolo is a bit closer to Cervelo in geometry.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
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Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

DavidMLee
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by DavidMLee

AX gets my vote.

As wheelsONfire nicely explained, Vial Evo D is made in Germany but Urgestalt is engineered by Lightweight and made by a third party manufacturer in Taiwan.

I have nothing against Taiwanese carbon manufacturing, which is actually top-tier class.
However, if any manufacturer wants to claim premium price tag on their offerings, they will have to stick to their brand philosophy.. in case of Lightweight, it would be German-made.

I heard many good traits about both frames... And only one of them is in line with their brand equity.

Also, this is just my theory and probably not true at all.
The reason we see so many Lightweight-branded goods like hangers and mirrors might be that Carbonsports thinks it paid too much to acquire Lightweight and its management has to justify M&A by expanding product lines and lowering their cost... Urgestalt could be result of this.

Again, both frames are great and you can't possibly go wrong with any offerings.
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badger4561
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by badger4561

+1 on Vial Evo if you can get your hands on one in asia without paying through the roof on duties!

AUOC1OC6
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by AUOC1OC6

Lightweight Urgestalt is built in Asia and Vial frames are built in Germany.
Lightweight wrote that if Urgestalt had been built in Germany it had cost 12000Euro which says quite a bit on their mark up fee on what they do.


This is precisely why I picked AX Vial Evo D over LW Urgestalt. Forget what they said about AX being fragile as a lightweight frame. I am 85+kgs and my AX 54 cm frame handles my weight just fine. I read somewhere that AX tested their frame with 120 kgs rider. :thumbup:
Last edited by AUOC1OC6 on Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AUOC1OC6
--------------------
AX Lightness Vial Evo D http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=138599
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eric01
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by eric01

Happy owner of a Vial Evo D. I'm 60 kg and its certainly strong enough and stiff enough for me.

I don't think the comment of "not a strong frame and easy to break" is quite fair. I do agree with the poster who said that all superlight frames have limitations.

If strength or durability is your top priority, steer clear of the 600-700g frames -- or any frame that specifies a rider weight limit. This class of frames have optimized for weight, not necessarily strength or durability.
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Delorre
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by Delorre

ianSWBB wrote:AJ1980
so both of the frames you are looking at are going to be a completely different ride to the S5 you currently have

they are more all-rounders rather than out and out power bike! more like an r5 than an s5!

if you have your S5 setup racy and low on the front, then the AX Lightness will be the one for you - the Lightweight feels quite high up on the front, a bit like a C60 endurance frame (but obviously lighter!)

The AX Lightness would get my vote!
:)


Even the Ax has a rather relax seating position, with a stack of almost 58cm for a 56 cm. It tends more toward an R5, and more upright than an S5, Evo, Scott Addict etc.

kode54
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by kode54

i have the AX Vial Evo D. and as fragile as some say when you look into the seat tube it is a well built frame. yes...its thin walled and all. mine has been through 3 crashes. one going at 28mph. not a scratch. my RD suffered some road rash, but the frame itself is intact. i did experience my drop out to snap, but that happened when i was about to clean my bike...had the rear wheel out...and thought i clamped the seat post. but as it turned out, the bike wasn't clamped tightly and since it was imbalanced, fell right onto the rear derailleur...taking out the drop out and RD. i was mortified. contacted AX and Nils emailed me back. he said it looks worse that what it is. i bought the frame second hand. and like Wheelsonfire says about warranty...i explained to Nils about my second hand purchase. no prob. quoted me 300 euros to extract the broken drop out, clean and replace with new one and paint. so while they had the frameset, i also requested new bearings pressed in all around and some touch up. 389 euros. the shipping killed me...but hey, its like getting a new frameset back. AX customer response and service was excellent. turnaround even around Xmas was great. about 2 weeks. i've heard worse stories from posts here about getting their bike repaired from the big bike companies.

so for me...AX gets my vote.
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Lieblingsleguan
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by Lieblingsleguan

I haven't ridden either of those frames, but I remember a test in either tour magazine or Roadbike (other German magazine).

AX Lightness was one of the best frames of the test, scoring well in both stiffness and comfort categories, while the Urgestalt was described as stiff and harsh riding.

I fail to see anything special about the Urgestalt and wouldn't consider buying it. My impression is that you buy the Vial Evo although it is expensive and the Urgestalt because it is expensive.

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kgt
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by kgt

I am a LW fan but I agree that the Urgestalt is too expensive for a made in China frame. Its performance does not seem to be amazing either.

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